Canceled BDD: The Revenge v.10

[MadGear]

Hey guys,

I need some advice.

So there's this YouTube video about my mod and most of the comments for that video are in Russian (I think). Curiosity got the better of me and I used a translator to read it all.
A lot of comments are quite negative towards the mod. Now, I can handle some negative feedback. But here's the thing: Most of them agree on the same things.
They say that the levels aren't varied enough and that it felt boring/repetitive, that there's no boss music and someone here, on this forum, mentioned having no healing items.

And now comes the part where I ask for your advice: Should I try and fix those things and just continue working on the mod? Or should I just leave the mod alone and move on?
2 years have passed since I uploaded the latest version and, to be honest, the video showed the v.8 version of the mod and not the latest version (Anniversary Edition).

Now, in the past, some of you said to me that you can't please everyone. While that is true, it still hurts to see the mod getting hated on.
Maybe I'm just taking it a bit too personal and/or serious. I'm kinda known for that.

 

[danno]

Move on dude... it's been 2 years, she's not worth it, think of all the other guys that have been playing it in that space of time, if she can't satisfy them then what makes you think you can? but more importantly why would you want to? time for you to start a new relationship MadGear with a mod that will put just as much into you as you do into her.

 

[Kratus]

Hey guys,

I need some advice.

So there's this YouTube video about my mod and most of the comments for that video are in Russian (I think). Curiosity got the better of me and I used a translator to read it all.
A lot of comments are quite negative towards the mod. Now, I can handle some negative feedback. But here's the thing: Most of them agree on the same things.
They say that the levels aren't varied enough and that it felt boring/repetitive, that there's no boss music and someone here, on this forum, mentioned having no healing items.

And now comes the part where I ask for your advice: Should I try and fix those things and just continue working on the mod? Or should I just leave the mod alone and move on?
2 years have passed since I uploaded the latest version and, to be honest, the video showed the v.8 version of the mod and not the latest version (Anniversary Edition).

Now, in the past, some of you said to me that you can't please everyone. While that is true, it still hurts to see the mod getting hated on.
Maybe I'm just taking it a bit too personal and/or serious. I'm kinda known for that.

Hey buddy!

Please, can you post a video of your mod? I would like to take a look.

The first thing I need to say is, don't give up! There's many people here in the community that can help you on creating or improving your projects.
Speaking about updating your module, it depends on many things, like how much you enjoy working on it, how much free time you have to dedicate or if you want to create other games.

This is only my point of view, but I always see negative feedback as a highly valuable thing. It can help you a lot in seeing problems from other angles or confirming if you are in the right direction or not. Of course, you will always have "haters" but even they can give you a useful feedback about a real problem.

In the end, it's true that you can't please everyone, but once your game is an expression of all your ideas, you need to ask yourself the most important question: Am I satisfied with my project?

If the answer is "yes", forget it and move on to the next one. If the answer is "no", go back to work and do your best

 

[MadGear]

@danno You make it sound like the mod is a girl But I get what you're saying: Why should it bother me? I do know the mod has its fans and I have seen more positive comments than negative ones through the years. Thank you.

@Kratus This mod means a lot to me, personally. It was my dream project ever since I was a kid and played the original Battletoads Double Dragon on SNES in 1994. The game never got a sequel, so I began developing one in my head. The story, characters, stages etc. It was all there, in my head. I just didn't have the tools back then. So when I discovered OpenBOR, I began developing it. It was a bumpy ride at first but I got the hang of it after a while.

That was back in 2009. I released the very first version of the mod then. I kept developing and updating the mod for 10 years. But I have to tell you: Working on something for that long has taken a toll on me. Throughout the years, I did listen to feedback and tried my best to fix things.

Speaking about updating your module, it depends on many things, like how much you enjoy working on it, how much free time you have to dedicate

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed working on it. I saw my dream project come to life right before my eyes. But as time went on, I noticed that the mod was falling behind other more advanced mods. I did my best to try and keep up, but it began to feel like a chore after a while instead of a hobby. And that is why I stopped development on the mod after its 10th anniversary. From time to time, I do have some spare time to work on it if I would want to.

you need to ask yourself the most important question: Am I satisfied with my project?

Me, personally, am quite pleased with how it turned out. My dream came true. But I do know that there are always things that can be improved. On one hand, yes, I do wish to fix a few things. But on the other hand, I stopped development for a reason: It began to take a toll on me.

The reason why those negative comments bothered me is because this mod is a very personal thing to me. There are movies that I love and almost everybody hates. But that doesn't bother me because I didn't make those movies. They were not projects of mine. This mod, however, is. But, as many have said to me, you can't please everyone and I shouldn't try to. It's kinda hard for me to do that, but I am trying to let go of that part.

 

[Kratus]

Me, personally, am quite pleased with how it turned out. My dream came true. But I do know that there are always things that can be improved. On one hand, yes, I do wish to fix a few things. But on the other hand, I stopped development for a reason: It began to take a toll on me.

@MadGear

Man, I understand you, similar things happened to me on SOR2X too.

I see that you love your project, but it seems that you need to take a break. Sometimes, we need to stop for a while and do other things, like starting a totally different project or stay away from development.

It might refresh your mind and can help you to think about what will be your next step.

 

[Bloodbane]

And now comes the part where I ask for your advice: Should I try and fix those things and just continue working on the mod? Or should I just leave the mod alone and move on?
2 years have passed since I uploaded the latest version and, to be honest, the video showed the v.8 version of the mod and not the latest version (Anniversary Edition).

Do you have time to fix those things? if not, then just leave the mod. But if you have time, spending some time to fix them should be worth it

 

[machok]

Saw your game, its very good
you are working on this because its your dream.. not for someone else so no need to worry about negative talk
the community must have been lucky to have this mod

if you still want to start working on it again
I have a little suggestion:

-design stage
combine the original stages from DD and battletoads so they have the right transition.
don't use too much fence on the frontlayer, better use something else

-spawn enemies
in this section you can make it more varied
like making them come from helicopters, car/van or motorbikes
they can also be on the side of the stage before finally having a turn to attack players etc
This variety make players not get bored quickly

I think you can make additions like this easily since your ability to make mods is great

 

[MadGear]

Sorry for the late reply. The suggestions that you gave me are great.

So, after some days of thinking, it seems my work isn't done quite yet. That's why I've decided that I will resume work on the mod. I'm not sure when because I don't have a lot of free time at the moment.

These are the things that I will be working on:
- Enemies spawning in more varied ways instead of just coming from the left or right of the screen
- Adding boss music
- Adding healing items in the stages (once or twice per stage to, hopefully, still keep it a bit challenging)
- Adding an extra stage for the final mission

I'm also thinking about changing the font of the cutscenes. I saw some complaints about that too. Now, if I'm going to do that, that will take the most time because the game has quite a lot of cutscenes.

 

[sng-ign]

Sorry for the late reply. The suggestions that you gave me are great.

So, after some days of thinking, it seems my work isn't done quite yet. That's why I've decided that I will resume work on the mod. I'm not sure when because I don't have a lot of free time at the moment.

These are the things that I will be working on:
- Enemies spawning in more varied ways instead of just coming from the left or right of the screen
- Adding boss music
- Adding healing items in the stages (once or twice per stage to, hopefully, still keep it a bit challenging)
- Adding an extra stage for the final mission

I'm also thinking about changing the font of the cutscenes. I saw some complaints about that too. Now, if I'm going to do that, that will take the most time because the game has quite a lot of cutscenes.

I helped do constructive feedback with that one dude here several years ago who pawned 'Bad-ass Babes', but I go for constructive criticism if the mod/product has potential.

Heck, I did several run-throughs for Pierwolf / Bloodbane / Count Monte project D&D Rise of Warduke on the player slot that they didn't test their game on (LOL), and fixed some spawn points for them.

I can try to lend a hand, but I'm only an amateur.

 

[MadGear]

Update: Changed the title of this topic to 'BDD: The Revenge v.10 (W.I.P.)'

I forgot to mention that I have some extra things that I want to add to the game:
- Weapons
- 3 player support (maybe)
- More stage hazards
- Giving the final boss fight a second phase (flying vehicle stage?)

The weapons I am thinking of are the weapons that Billy and Jimmy can hold in Double Dragon Advance (nunchaku and the sticks). I think I can also add knives.

Now, about that 3 player support: I was originally thinking of adding 4 player support. But after seeing some YouTube videos of some hacks of my mod that enabled this feature, I saw that the game became very crowded and chaotic. Therefore, I was thinking that 3 player support might be the better option for this game. I'm not 100% sure if I'm actually going to add 3 player support because I'm still having some doubts if the game would actually be better of with or without it.

For some reason, stage hazards were something that I never really thought of when developing the game. It might bring some extra variety to the game.

I have been toying with the idea to add a second phase to the final boss for a while now. The first phase would be the battle with Willy and The Dark Queen that's in the game right now. After defeating them, they could enter some sort of giant mech or something and that would be the actual final battle. I'm unsure if I want to have that fight on the ground or in the air.

Let me know what you think about these ideas.

 

[oldyz]

@MadGear,

if you are going to implement 3 players , might as well do 4...
you got 3 toads & 2 dragons, if openbor would handle it, 5 players would be the thing....

will you make the game wide-screen? that helps with the chaos...

somewhere out there there will be times when 4 friends get together & may want to all play your mod at the same time, even if its messy.

you may want to use Kratu's verison of openbor for 3 or 4 players tho, otherwise the controller mapping will be a mess.
i don't know if you are interested in adding dynamic cinema scenes for your mod, if you are i will try to give you what i have so far in that reguard..

 

[MadGear]

if you are going to implement 3 players , might as well do 4

I guess that would make more sense. I'm still on the fence if I'm actually going to enable the feature because I didn't develop the mod with 4 players in mind. It's unknown territory for me.

will you make the game wide-screen?

Wide-screen is a good suggestion. How do I do that? Is it just as simple as enabling it in the video.txt file or adding a line of text?

you may want to use Kratu's verison of openbor for 3 or 4 players tho, otherwise the controller mapping will be a mess.

How do I get his version of the engine? Do I just download his SOR2X mod and use the OpenBOR.exe file that comes with it?

i don't know if you are interested in adding dynamic cinema scenes for your mod

I'm going to be honest with you: I have no idea what dynamic cinema scenes are. Does it have to do with cutscenes?

Sorry for all these questions. I have been out of the loop for a while. I'm a bit rusty at the moment.

 

[oldyz]

@MadGear

4 players,
i managed to successfully pull it off for NSX wide, some things had to be added to existing scripts to make all 4 players fully playable, so i suggest you tackle the wide-screen conversion first & then take a look on how to adapt NSX wide's fixes, another thing you can do is to see other 4 player modules & see how their stuff works too.
It will all depend mostly on adding some lines on any scripts that deal with players present...

Widescreen -
yes you have to edit your video.txt file like this:

video 480x240
ColourDepth 16bit

this resolution makes sprites look smaller, if the aspect ratio is forced tho, actual 16 by 9 ratio looks better

video 426x240
ColourDepth 16bit
,but may be incompatible with the wii & who knows if it causes trouble with the android version of openbor

after this , you will nee to edit every level to shift some things
you may want download the NIghtslashers X wide mod and study it a bit

old version has less size , new version 21C has lots of notes

- basically you have to add/subtract to the original 4:3 coordinates


take a look at this for comparison

loadingbg data/scenes/lvs/1 1 1000 1000 1 1000 1000

music        data/music/lv1.bor 1996221

notime 1

settime 0

background    data/bgs/lv1/back1

bglayer        data/bgs/lv1/back2 0.2 0.2 0 0 0 0 5 5 1 0

bglayer        data/bgs/lv1/back2 0.4 0.4 0 0 0 0 5 5 1 0

fglayer        data/bgs/lv1/f3 2 -0.5 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0

fglayer        data/bgs/lv1/f4 2 -0.5 0 1100 0 0 0 1 1 1 0

panel        data/bgs/lv1/a1

panel        data/bgs/lv1/a1b

order    ab

direction both

spawn1 160 35 0

spawn2 140 55 0

wall 1585 253 -50 -50 20 45 50 1000

wall 1579 253 0 0 1000 1000 30 1000

wall 1966 155 -10 10 1000 1000 30 1000

#levelscript data/bgs/lv1/lv1.c

load lv1p 1

load tlk0c 1

load jsn 1

load Ghoul3 1

load dog 1

load dog2 1

shadowalpha 2

at 0

light 256 33

at 0

spawn    stop

flip 1

coords    160 130

at    0

spawn    lv1p

flip 1

coords    1550 232

at    0


spawn    grit

coords    5 240

at    0


spawn    zombiea

coords    360 220

at    50

spawn    dog2

coords    350 160

at    120

spawn    zombie2a

coords    380 200

at    200

spawn    zombie2

coords    200 160

at    250

spawn    zombie2

coords    -100 200

at    250

spawn    zombie

coords    240 180

at    350

spawn    zombie3

coords    380 200

at    420

spawn    zombie3

coords    -100 200

at    550

spawn    barel

item itemr2

#item grit

coords    370 150

at    590

spawn    barelex

coords    480 175

at    590

spawn    barel

item zombie

coords    425 150

at    590

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    180 200

at    650

spawn    zombie2

coords    350 200

at    750

blockade 850

at 850

wait

at 850

spawn    zombie

coords    160 220

at    850

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    50 180

at    850

group 100 100

at 1000

spawn    zombie2

coords    280 160

at    1050

spawn    zombie2

coords    250 220

at    1150

spawn    zombie

coords    240 180

at    1250

spawn    zombie3

coords    380 200

at    1330

spawn    zombie3

coords    -100 200

at    1450

blockade 1524

at 1524

spawn    jason

item money2

coords    350 180

at    1524

spawn    jsn

coords    360 220

at    1620

spawn    ghoul3

item money2

coords    320 160

at    1624

group 5 5

at 1800

spawn    zombie3

coords    -250 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

coords    -200 180

at    1800

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    50 170

at    1800

spawn    zombie3

coords    -250 180

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

coords    -300 180

at    1800

spawn    zombie

coords    -200 160

at    1800

spawn    dog

coords    -300 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

coords    -150 150

at    1800

spawn    zombie3

coords    -250 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie

coords    -250 160

at    1800

group 1 1

at 1800

spawn    tlk0c

coords    160 220

at    1800

group 100 100

at 1800

spawn    zombie3

flip 1

coords    -150 200

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    -100 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    -200 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

item itemr

coords    -150 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie3

flip 1

coords    -250 200

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    -300 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    -300 160

at    1800

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    -350 160

at    1800

loadingbg data/scenes/lvs/1 1 1000 1000 1 1000 1000

music        data/music/lv1.bor 1996221

notime 1

settime 0

background    data/bgs/lv1/back1

bglayer        data/bgs/lv1/back2 0.2 0.2 0 0 0 0 5 5 1 0

bglayer        data/bgs/lv1/back2 0.4 0.4 0 0 0 0 5 5 1 0

fglayer        data/bgs/lv1/f3 2 -0.5 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0

fglayer        data/bgs/lv1/f4 2 -0.5 0 1100 0 0 0 1 1 1 0

panel        data/bgs/lv1/a1

panel        data/bgs/lv1/a1b

order    ab

direction both

spawn1 160 35 0

spawn2 135 75 0

spawn3 200 60 0

spawn4 95 48 0

wall 1585 253 -50 -50 20 45 50 1000

wall 1579 253 0 0 1000 1000 30 1000

wall 1966 155 -10 10 1000 1000 30 1000

#levelscript data/bgs/lv1/lv1.c

load lv1p 1

load tlk0c 1

load jsn 1

load Ghoul3 1

load dog 1

load dog2 1

shadowalpha 2

at 0

light 256 33

at 0

spawn    stop

flip 1

coords    160 130

at    0

spawn    lv1p

flip 1

coords    1550 232

at    0


spawn    grit

coords    5 240

at    0

#

spawn    zombiea

coords    520 220

at    -110

#

spawn    dog2

coords    510 160

at    -40

#

spawn    zombie2a

coords    540 200

at    40

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    360 160

at    90

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    -10 200

at    90

#

spawn    zombie

coords    400 180

at    190

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    540 200

at    260

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    -10 200

at    390

#

spawn    barel

item itemr2

#item grit

coords    530 150

at    430

#

spawn    barelex

coords    640 175

at    430

#

spawn    barel

item zombie

coords    585 150

at    430

#

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    340 200

at    490

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    510 200

at    590

#

blockade 690

at 690

wait

at 690

#

spawn    zombie

coords    320 220

at    690

#

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    210 180

at    690

#

group 100 100

at 840

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    440 160

at    890

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    410 220

at    990

#

spawn    zombie

coords    400 180

at    1090

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    540 200

at    1170

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    -10 200

at    1290

#

blockade 1364

at 1364

#

spawn    jason

item money2

coords    510 180

at    1364

#

spawn    jsn

coords    520 220

at    1460

#

spawn    ghoul3

item money2

coords    480 160

at    1464

#

group 5 5

at 1800

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    -90 160

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    -40 180

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    210 170

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    -90 180

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    -140 180

at    1640

spawn    zombie

#

coords    -40 160

at    1640

#

spawn    dog

coords    -140 160

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie2

coords    -10 150

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie3

coords    -90 160

at    1640

spawn    zombie

coords    -90 160

at    1640

group 1 1

at 1800

spawn    tlk0c

coords    320 220

at    1640

group 100 100

at 1800

spawn    zombie3

flip 1

coords    -10 200

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    -40 160

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    -40 160

at    1640

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

item itemr

coords    -10 160

at    1640

spawn    zombie3

flip 1

coords    -90 200

at    1640

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    -140 160

at    1640

spawn    zombie

flip 1

coords    -140 160

at    1640

#

spawn    zombie2

flip 1

coords    -190 160

at    1640

short version


16:9 or wide-screen

at 0

light 256 33

at 0

spawn stop

flip 1

coords 160 130

at 0

spawn lv1p

flip 1

coords 1550 232

at 0


spawn grit

coords 5 240

at 0

#

spawn zombiea

coords 520 220

at -110

#

spawn dog2

coords 510 160

at -40


4:3

at 0

light 256 33

at 0

spawn stop

flip 1

coords 160 130

at 0

spawn lv1p

flip 1

coords 1550 232

at 0


spawn grit

coords 5 240

at 0


spawn zombiea

coords 360 220

at 50

spawn dog2

coords 350 160


so basically you will add or subtract 160 (140 or 120 for 16:9) to most entities spawn coordinates - some on screen spawners may need scripting tricks or creative "at" numbers so they can match the 4:3 spots as much as you can ( barrels , obstacles)

if you are efficient you should be able to transform the module in about a month or 2, i can help solve some stuff you might get stuck with & don't obsess if a single character or object is not working right, just "cancel" the code using ## (i think) and leave notes under it with ## before it

some graphics will need expanding, some stage beginnigs might have to be shifted... but its no big deal.

One thing you might be able to feature is the option to play in 4:3 or 16 by 9 , the manual has some info on how to do it, but i was lazy & did not try it,
best part about this is that it may allow for 3 types of resolution, but you can think about that later

@Kratus 's latest engine is in his website, it used to be accesible trough his his forum signature.
downloads section has version 7123 as a stand-alone download


Dynamic cutscenes reflect different things depending on what characters are in play, scores, etc
that would be the last thing to do...

 

[MadGear]

@oldyz I appreciate you explaining all these things but I'm gonna be totally honest with you: I have already decided to keep the size of the screen at 4:3. It's going to be a lot of work to basically re-edit all the stages and I don't really feel like doing that. But again, thanks for explaining.

I have been working on the game a little bit and fixed something that was quite annoying: Thrown/launched enemies damaging the other player. By using the 'Projectilehit' command, I was able to fix this little thing. It took a little bit of work because I had to add this command to all the enemies that can be thrown/launched.

Another thing that I improved (if I say so myself) is the 'Choose Route' screen. You could still see the HUD (character portrait, lives etc.) when choosing your route. It looked a bit off to me. So I was able to cover the HUD by using the 'setlayer' command and giving it a value of 999999999. It looks better if you ask me. On the left is the current one and on the right is the new one.



That's it for now. I will keep you updated once I've made a few more adjustments. It's going slower because I have less free time at the current moment.

 

[oldyz]

@MadGear , its cool ,

well, to tell you the truth it was not that hard to transform the levels, i as doing one per day & i was able to leave the progress on "pause" thanks to a little trick where i would put @@ after every modified value. After testing the level i would go back & erase the @@ stuff using the find function.

the hardest part was to photoshop the background chunks , & the new parallax layers for some levels & some coding to fix 2 or 3 bosses, the carriage & such & keep in mind that i understood the engine wayyy less

maybe i f i had a way of collecting funds safely & anonymously, i could get a crack at it later on, unfortunately with current events it seems that blockchain stuff is not so safe anymore

 

[MadGear]

Hey guys,

So, it's been almost half a year since I've said something in this topic.

I'm going to be honest and say that I haven't been working on the mod anymore. Not even a little bit. It hurts me to say it, but I guess I just don't really enjoy this hobby anymore. I don't feel creative and I certainly don't feel that spark I once had. I'm hoping that spark will return to me someday, but right now, I'm just not feeling it.
But never say never, I suppose.

I didn't want to leave people in the dark, so I thought, at the very least, I would provide you with an update.
So, to those who were actually waiting for this new version of the game, I'm sorry.

 

[DCurrent]

@MadGear,

Thanks for the heads up, I'm marking the project Canceled. You can always come back and resume. Hate to see you giving up though, especially because it sounds like you're giving up game making in general. If there's something we could help with, let us know.

DC

 

[MadGear]

@DCurrent

I guess it is pretty much my own fault. I made the mistake of immediately creating another mod after having spent 10 years working on BDD: The Revenge. Which caused me to have some sort of a "burn-out" feeling. It is ironic that my own dream game caused me to feel this way and pretty much being unable to create another mod.

 

[NED]

@DCurrent

I guess it is pretty much my own fault. I made the mistake of immediately creating another mod after having spent 10 years working on BDD: The Revenge. Which caused me to have some sort of a "burn-out" feeling. It is ironic that my own dream game caused me to feel this way and pretty much being unable to create another mod.

I understand this feeling. Particularly when you work for a long time and (in my case) struggle to code stuffs without feeling any progress.
You sometime can have a feeling like "OK, people make it so well, I will leave it to them, and just watch their progress on their own projects" (At least, I sometimes feels like that.)

If you still plays beat em ups (commercial or not, I'm pretty sure some day in the future you will feel a need for creation)

I wish to see you around, even by commenting on various threads

 

[MadGear]

@NED

Not to worry, I don't intend to just suddenly vanish from this forum. I'll still be around and checking up every now and then.