Streets of Rage X (Windows / Android)

In Progress Streets of Rage X (Windows / Android) Beta 33

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@Psykai

Thanks for the feedback :) Let's talk about the points.

In this case I think it's better to make specific adjustments on every enemy one by one by managing the juggle limit instead of creating one more game settings option.
Honestly I don't see a reason for that, since juggles are a double-edge blade and works for both player/enemy (already can be disabled too), plus heroes have the aerial recovery in order to escape and being invincible until landing or canceling into a jumping attack.


According to the original, this attack has 6 hits, I just replicated the same move. I can increase the juggle cost and reduce the total amount of aerial hits a bit.




Although I understand your point about Galsia's knife move, this is not exactly a rule. There's some examples in fighting games where one swing/motion attack hits multiple times. However, I can make the knife move to hit once only, so it's reduced to one hit on the ground or one hit in the air.
Here's one, the first Balrog's special in the video is based on a unique dash move that can hit multiple times.



Frankly I see it as a part of the challenge when fighting against this enemy, since he is highly skilled in the SOR1 (I have a theory that SOR2 Shiva is a SOR1 Hakuyo promoted lol).


No problem, I can think about another button layout, but for now I suggest mapping it to other distant keys in your keyboard.
The current layout was also planned to help Android users with touchscreen controls, by simply sliding fingers between buttons A and X.


Although SORX is very close to the originals, the game reached a point where it has its own identity. I mean, at the same time I want to follow the original in many aspects, I also want to risk many new things.
Indeed this is my "fuel" to keep making this game, I would not make another SoR if they would be exactly the same as the classics.

As an example, in the SOR4 I don't like the excessive use of the super armor even for common enemies (Donovan), IMO it's a lazy way to create a challenge, but this is how the creators think it's cool, and that's it. Plus there's no option to disable it like in the SORX, so players need to find a way to bypass it by creating new strategies, I suggest the same for the SORX.


Abadede was one of the most nerfed characters since the first SOR2X, I think it's very close to the original now.
Here's how to beat him using the classic SOR2 strategy.



If you are using block type "hold":
- guard points are subtracted by the real damage.
- health is subtracted by 1/4 of the real damage.

If you are using block type "parry":
- guardpoints subtraction is fixed in 1 by each hit.
- no health subtraction, since this feature is harder to perform.

Keep in mind that in both cases the max guardpoints value is 20.
Enemies can block rage moves, but players/cpu partners too (in case I made any rage unblockable, both sides will suffer). Blocking a rage move is always costly and dangerous to the part that is blocking it.
In the new game update, you can use rage while grabbing opponents, so you can easily force any enemy to use block by doing any distant attack, hold him and then cast rage.



@ty1989 Not exactly, I restricted the knife attack box to only the knife sprite, same as I did with other weapons (you can confirm it by enabling the debug mode). The same format was applied to all Galsia versions.

View attachment 9970


At what point exactly? I even understand reducing the juggle capability a bit, but other than that you can beat them with a single jumping attack.


@Blit-X- TV [LIVE]
In fact many fighting games allow you to block supers, this is very common. This increases the strategy requirements in order to open the opponent's defense.
Unlike SOR4 that have very limited star itens by level, in the SORX you can fill energy stars at every time by hitting enemies, so you can always try again in case enemies block your rage move.
I guess the tl;dr for this is "git gud", which is about what I expected.

Tbh my life and mental health sucks right now and I don't have the energy to go through each point or try to make a case for any of them. I'll just accept I'm probably wrong about everything 'cause I usually am anyway, lol.

I think I need to play around with my controls a little. I don't use the block or parry feature at all, in part because it's just not something I'm used to in SoR and also because I'm a keyboard player and I simply don't have an easy button to assign it to that I could use reliably because my fingers are otherwise engaged. I have a very specific setup for SoR (and beat 'em ups in general) which if that gets messed with/added to tends to throw me off. S is attack, D is jump, A is special, and W is back attack (hence the fingernail issue, xD). Currently, F is my block button (which is naturally awkward) and E is my rage button (which is fine 'cause I don't need to use it as often). I may have to swap my special button with my block button, which will take some getting used to. As for air recovery, I think I pull that off by accident (when simply trying to perform a 'land from throw') more than anything. I assume it's just the same command but different timing. I will try to see if I can figure that out. This is basically my comfort game, so I want to be able to get to a place where it isn't adding to my stress levels, lol.
 
I guess the tl;dr for this is "git gud", which is about what I expected.

Tbh my life and mental health sucks right now and I don't have the energy to go through each point or try to make a case for any of them. I'll just accept I'm probably wrong about everything 'cause I usually am anyway, lol.

I think I need to play around with my controls a little. I don't use the block or parry feature at all, in part because it's just not something I'm used to in SoR and also because I'm a keyboard player and I simply don't have an easy button to assign it to that I could use reliably because my fingers are otherwise engaged. I have a very specific setup for SoR (and beat 'em ups in general) which if that gets messed with/added to tends to throw me off. S is attack, D is jump, A is special, and W is back attack (hence the fingernail issue, xD). Currently, F is my block button (which is naturally awkward) and E is my rage button (which is fine 'cause I don't need to use it as often). I may have to swap my special button with my block button, which will take some getting used to. As for air recovery, I think I pull that off by accident (when simply trying to perform a 'land from throw') more than anything. I assume it's just the same command but different timing. I will try to see if I can figure that out. This is basically my comfort game, so I want to be able to get to a place where it isn't adding to my stress levels, lol.
Placing my fingers on that setup, I have my pinky and thumb free which I'm assuming is the same for you, maybe put Guard as left shift and hit it with your pinky?
 
I guess the tl;dr for this is "git gud", which is about what I expected.

Tbh my life and mental health sucks right now and I don't have the energy to go through each point or try to make a case for any of them. I'll just accept I'm probably wrong about everything 'cause I usually am anyway, lol.

I think I need to play around with my controls a little. I don't use the block or parry feature at all, in part because it's just not something I'm used to in SoR and also because I'm a keyboard player and I simply don't have an easy button to assign it to that I could use reliably because my fingers are otherwise engaged. I have a very specific setup for SoR (and beat 'em ups in general) which if that gets messed with/added to tends to throw me off. S is attack, D is jump, A is special, and W is back attack (hence the fingernail issue, xD). Currently, F is my block button (which is naturally awkward) and E is my rage button (which is fine 'cause I don't need to use it as often). I may have to swap my special button with my block button, which will take some getting used to. As for air recovery, I think I pull that off by accident (when simply trying to perform a 'land from throw') more than anything. I assume it's just the same command but different timing. I will try to see if I can figure that out. This is basically my comfort game, so I want to be able to get to a place where it isn't adding to my stress levels, lol.

I think it was less "git gud" and more "U suk". :P

Seriously, I can see the back and forth here, and it is pretty subjective. Personally I just get a little miffed when Max walks into Galsia - and GETS grabbed. From the front. Consistently. That and him not being able to throw the Fat bosses other than with a rage move, unless that's changed. Why? He's nearly as big as they are, built like a tank, and an expert wrestler.

If this guy can do it... why can't Max? :P


Plus, form a narrative standpoint, that's his "thing". IMO, all his throws should work on anyone.

Again though, it's all subjective.

DC
 
I think it was less "git gud" and more "U suk". :P

Seriously, I can see the back and forth here, and it is pretty subjective. Personally I just get a little miffed when Max walks into Galsia - and GETS grabbed. From the front. Consistently. That and him not being able to throw the Fat bosses other than with a rage move, unless that's changed. Why? He's nearly as big as they are, built like a tank, and an expert wrestler.

If this guy can do it... why can't Max? :P


Plus, form a narrative standpoint, that's his "thing". IMO, all his throws should work on anyone.

Again though, it's all subjective.

DC
Wait seriously? I think even SORR has Max override Big Ben weight.
 
Wait seriously? I think even SORR has Max override Big Ben weight.

It does, and IIRC, so did this in earlier iterations. In the version I have though, he doesn't. So unless the latest updates have changed it, you can use your rage throw, but regular throws get you squished.

DC
 
Is it possible to recover from a knife Galsias, fire jugglers, and whip Ladies after the first hit? It feels like I can't and they end juggling me a lot.
 
In fact many fighting games allow you to block supers, this is very common. This increases the strategy requirements in order to open the opponent's defense.
Unlike SOR4 that have very limited star itens by level, in the SORX you can fill energy stars at every time by hitting enemies, so you can always try again in case enemies block your rage move.
Yeah, I also agree with that but given that the enemies/bosses also choose to straight up walk up/away from, whiff & iFrame through some of the rage attacks (See posted gameplay), it does get quite annoying.


Just tried and yep, both SOR2 and BK2B Max get squished even doing the jump slam lmao.
Pretty sure I said in a much earlier post somewhere but IMO Max & somewhat Blaze should be exempt from getting squished from throwing the heavy enemies especially Max.
Blaze only because she's an expert in Judo & would know a technique or 2 to use the opponents body weight to her advantage but realistically wouldn't be able to support a suplex or back slam.
Best case in point is her neutral grab front facing slam.

Can't remember if Skate's vaulting throw can work on the big guys but IIRC in some games it was allowed. If he can do that then not sure why Max would struggle.
 
Yeah, I also agree with that but given that the enemies/bosses also choose to straight up walk up/away from, whiff & iFrame through some of the rage attacks (See posted gameplay), it does get quite annoying.



Pretty sure I said in a much earlier post somewhere but IMO Max & somewhat Blaze should be exempt from getting squished from throwing the heavy enemies especially Max.
Blaze only because she's an expert in Judo & would know a technique or 2 to use the opponents body weight to her advantage but realistically wouldn't be able to support a suplex or back slam.
Best case in point is her neutral grab front facing slam.

Can't remember if Skate's vaulting throw can work on the big guys but IIRC in some games it was allowed. If he can do that then not sure why Max would struggle.
Skate could in og 2 and 3 yes, haven't checked if he can here though.

Edit: Just realized Blaze can air throw SOR3 Big Bens, lol. Also idk if you forgot Blaze could always front slam Big Bens even in SOR3.
 
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lol SORX topic is on fire like if it was the first release :ROFLMAO:

True, by himself he's mildly annoying but it's a little strange overall he's more of a threat than pipe Donovan. I'll check later but it definitely does not feel like his hit box is limited to only the knife sprite, he exhibits behavior similar to SOR4 knife Galsia where can hit you even if you were a little behind him and tried to approach while he was dashing diagonally, which in the original 2 and 3 was fine. If he tried to run at you, you olé him and try to grab him immediately by moving to his back at an angle, you got the grab. Here and 4, you try to do that, you get stabbed, lmao.
@ty1989 Maybe I understood the problem, you are trying to grab a knife "Galsia" by just walking into him directly. Well, I do not recommend doing this except if you are rising with a brief invincibility after being knocked down.
About the attack box, you can enable the debug mode in the system options and confirm it. However, keep in mind that although the knife attack box is small, your body box is big.

Another question about AI, sometimes I am not even near an enemy but they'll break an object but then that's it. Are they going to break stuff to look for items in the future?
Yes, I added it in the A.I. behaviour in cases where enemies are blocked by obstacles depending on their positions. This was made to prevent them from being stuck in level objects, but in fact they are not interested in the items unless you enable it in the game settings (food only).

However, enemies that can pick up weapons will always be interested in these items in case they drop from a broken obstacle.

1735949038660.png

I guess the tl;dr for this is "git gud", which is about what I expected.

Tbh my life and mental health sucks right now and I don't have the energy to go through each point or try to make a case for any of them. I'll just accept I'm probably wrong about everything 'cause I usually am anyway, lol.
@Psykai I agree with your suggestions about specific juggle adjustments, I already applied it on all Galsias and Electras. I will upload a new version with these changes soon

As for air recovery, I think I pull that off by accident (when simply trying to perform a 'land from throw') more than anything. I assume it's just the same command but different timing
Indeed you need full guardpoints to perform that and must be in a falling state due to a knockdown hit (will not work after a throw/slam).

Bug report
Rebellion mode. Character used: Roo. Sor 2 route, St1c (upper bar stage). Cheats enabled, character change enabled. After SOR2 stage 1 finished and back to select player you can see for yourself the bug below.View attachment 9972
@seahorses Thanks buddy, it was just a small copy/paste issue in the levels.txt related to the select screen background. Fixed :)

Personally I just get a little miffed when Max walks into Galsia - and GETS grabbed. From the front
@DCurrent Like this? Considering that Max grabdistance is bigger than Galsia's value, he will win the grabs in most cases.


That and him not being able to throw the Fat bosses other than with a rage move
Not exactly, both super (1 star move) and ground/aerial pile can be performed on Fat bosses.


Plus, form a narrative standpoint, that's his "thing". IMO, all his throws should work on anyone.
To be honest this was not a random idea, there's a logic behind and I'm using Zan as reference. Since he can't lift up the common fat enemies, even with mechanical arms, Max would follow the same logic mainly with the Bongo boss version, which is bigger than the common ones (and since SOR1 also has the same feature originally, Adam/Axel even with power A in the specs, can't throw/slam Bongo).
In addition, the weight limitation works only when a throw/slam needs to lift up too much the opponent, frontal throw/slam can be performed normally (Blaze).

Wait seriously? I think even SORR has Max override Big Ben weight.
About the SORR Max overriding the Bongo's weight, indeed it's due to that in this game they made Max stronger than Zan, but it's wrong if compared with the classics where both have the same level of power (3 stars). I just followed the classics.

1735953408512.png1735953413210.png
1735953609561.png1735953626105.png

Is it possible to recover from a knife Galsias, fire jugglers, and whip Ladies after the first hit? It feels like I can't and they end juggling me a lot.
@Halcyon Ways Yes, the aerial recovery is available as soon as you enter in a falling instance (except for special falling like burn/shock/spin).

Yeah, I also agree with that but given that the enemies/bosses also choose to straight up walk up/away from, whiff & iFrame through some of the rage attacks (See posted gameplay), it does get quite annoying.
@Blit-X- TV [LIVE] I would agree in case you didn't have a cancelling system, you can increase the rage accuracy by cancelling a simple blitz move into rage.
Plus you can perform a rage move during a juggle, in which the opponent is completely vulnerable (now during a grab too).

I'm saying that's a point for why she should be able to throw them, not against.
Edit: Just realized Blaze can air throw SOR3 Big Bens, lol. Also idk if you forgot Blaze could always front slam Big Bens even in SOR3.
Explained above.

Blaze only because she's an expert in Judo
There's an exception in the last update where I forgot to enable the same feature for SOR2 Blaze during her aerial throw, I'm fixing it.

EDIT: @seahorses I added your Roo's new sprites for super/rage but didn't publish yet due to still being in several tests. I will make a video to show it publicly when finished.
 
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I just followed the classics.
Not to be nitpicky but if going by classic stats, there's a roller blading elephant in the room. Despite the physics not making sense for the type of throw, Skate can heave SOR3 Big Ben a considerable distance with enough strength to lift him off the ground after a nimble vault in the original game, yet still struggle to lift a pipe back up after swinging it but he has one star in Power. I saw that you fixed this for Skate in this, but yet still apply the stat as a measure from the classics on who can lift BB or not, despite Skate violating this in SOR3/BK3, meaning the classics aren't as reliable to gauge this. You can't have your cake and eat it too, just saying. Also take into account despite the stars, Zan isn't as strong as Axel in SOR3/BK3 in damage, which that stat would influence, Zan simply has better reach. Finally going by the animation, no, Zan can in fact lift BB but he gives out after finishing shaking him, so if anything it's his method of throwing that screws him over, whereas Max does his suplexes in one snapping motion.

Edit: Also not sure on the evidence backing this up but Big Ben weighs 234LBs while Zan weighs 332LBs yet Onihime/Yasha can heave his metal ass without a problem lol.

To add context to the video DC posted, again not sure on evidence but Big Show's actual weight (not billed weight, as that's usually just for show) during this time was 325-375, later in his career he noted John Cena was the strongest wrestler to lift him up, Max definitely is more massive than Cena. Useless trivia done :P.
 
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Not to be nitpicky but if going by classic stats, there's a roller blading elephant in the room. Despite the physics not making sense for the type of throw, Skate can heave SOR3 Big Ben a considerable distance with enough strength to lift him off the ground after a nimble vault in the original game, yet still struggle to lift a pipe back up after swinging it but he has one star in Power. I saw that you fixed this for Skate in this, but yet still apply the stat as a measure from the classics on who can lift BB or not, despite Skate violating this in SOR3/BK3, meaning the classics aren't as reliable to gauge this. You can't have your cake and eat it too, just saying. Also take into account despite the stars, Zan isn't as strong as Axel in SOR3/BK3 in damage, which that stat would influence, Zan simply has better reach. Finally going by the animation, no, Zan can in fact lift BB but he gives out after finishing shaking him, so if anything it's his method of throwing that screws him over, whereas Max does his suplexes in one snapping motion.

Edit: Also not sure on the evidence backing this up but Big Ben weighs 234LBs while Zan weighs 332LBs yet Onihime/Yasha can heave his metal ass without a problem lol.

To add context to the video DC posted, again not sure on evidence but Big Show's actual weight (not billed weight, as that's usually just for show) during this time was 325-375, later in his career he noted John Cena was the strongest wrestler to lift him up, Max definitely is more massive than Cena. Useless trivia done :P.
Although I'm following the classics in many things, SORX is not the same game.
Some things I think are not good in the classics and I changed it completely, many others were maintained intact, others I modified/intensified/nerfed a little. It's not a "0 or 1 bit" thing, like "or I follow the classics in everything, or I follow nothing".

What I'm trying to say is that there's is a logic behind what is coded, this is not a random thing thrown in the game 😅. But I will go crazy if everything must follow detailed physics law.

The current rule is, Max/Zan have 3 stars of power, both have limitations to throw SOR1 Bongo or SOR3 Big-Ben when lifting them, that's it.
SOR1 rules: Big-Ben can't be thrown by anyone, with a few exceptions.
SOR2 rules: Big-Ben can be thrown by anyone with no restrictions.
SOR3 rules: Big-Ben can't be thrown by anyone, with a few exceptions.

To reach an agreement, I propose:
- All characters that have 3 stars of power (or more) have no restrictions to lift opponents. It will affect Max, Zan, Abadede, R. Bear, etc...
- This way I can maintain my vision from the classics of Max/Zan having in the same level of power, plus benefits people that want to use throw/slam freely with Max/Zan.

I saw that you fixed this for Skate
Zan isn't as strong as Axel in SOR3/BK3 in damage, which that stat would influence, Zan simply has better reach
These are two examples of what I think are bad in the classics and I applied another vision, now the stats have a direct influence on any character's attacks since the base damage is multiplied by the power factor. Stats are not a decorative thing in the SORX, like they are in the classics (except for the "skills").
 
To reach an agreement, I propose:
- All characters that have 3 stars of power (or more) have no restrictions to lift opponents. It will affect Max, Zan, Abadede, R. Bear, etc...
- This way I can maintain my vision from the classics of Max/Zan having in the same level of power, plus benefits people that want to use throw/slam freely with Max/Zan.
Sounds like a good idea to keep things consistent. Makes the grapplers feel more like grapplers.
 
If my controller didn't disconnected.. I would have beat this with out dying.

I'm very surprised on how good Axel 3 is. He's does a lot better than both Shivas. I guess for the reasons is that they're defense specials are very short and they don't have back attacks. So it's harder for my style of game play to use them.

It's fun to connect Axel's 1 star and 3 star moves into other combos. I also a can redirect enemies mid juggle which is really helpful. SOR 4 you could do that in v4 v5 v7 really well with Blaze 4. V8 juice nerfed her classic defense special from redirecting enemies. I guess devs didn't like that used for a infinite.

I'm looking forward to be able to use the my 3 star moves while grabbing people. It will be really useful in SOR 2 path because I end grabbing a lot more people in those smaller areas by mistake.

Upping Max's grab range will be really nice. I got tired of Galsia always grabbing me as well.


 
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