There sure are a lot of Bad BOR games...
- Thread starter KanbeiKS7
- Start date
Sorry I don't know if there is better thread to continue on the question around "using Mugen/Ikemen AND OpenBor for FIGHTING", I've seen some interesting points about it here, so I reply here. Feel free to move it to another topic if needed.
Anyway, I wanted to say that for me as outsider who just briefly glances at both, it looks like OpenBOR seems more "easy" to make stuff with for non-programmers/non-coders. Perhaps it's very wrong impression I now have, but when I took a look at some examples from tutorials on both, the way how scripting/code looks made me think that OpenBOR is a bit more approachable and could be compared with ZDoom or Adventure Game Studio scripting, while Mugen stuff looks much more overwhelming.
On the other hand, OpenBOR is mostly focused on beatemups and there are much more resources/lessons on it, so people who try out doing Versus Fighting games here have to really dive deep into coding, perhaps going into "actual programming" as it's sort of "uncharted experimental territory"
(not sure how better to say; but I when I say scripting and coding I usually mean things not much more difficult than html/css, so even if you dont have "programmer mind" you can just research many examples and find a way to copy and change them into something you need, while when i say "programming" i really mean when person is deeply experienced with how functions, arrays, etc. behaviours are done, and can really do stuff that was not done yet, something you cant do by just learning examples to alter).
so obviously Ikemen/Mugen would be "obvious" choice if you're really going to do a fighting, but still i wonder...
What you all think?
Anyway, I wanted to say that for me as outsider who just briefly glances at both, it looks like OpenBOR seems more "easy" to make stuff with for non-programmers/non-coders. Perhaps it's very wrong impression I now have, but when I took a look at some examples from tutorials on both, the way how scripting/code looks made me think that OpenBOR is a bit more approachable and could be compared with ZDoom or Adventure Game Studio scripting, while Mugen stuff looks much more overwhelming.
On the other hand, OpenBOR is mostly focused on beatemups and there are much more resources/lessons on it, so people who try out doing Versus Fighting games here have to really dive deep into coding, perhaps going into "actual programming" as it's sort of "uncharted experimental territory"
(not sure how better to say; but I when I say scripting and coding I usually mean things not much more difficult than html/css, so even if you dont have "programmer mind" you can just research many examples and find a way to copy and change them into something you need, while when i say "programming" i really mean when person is deeply experienced with how functions, arrays, etc. behaviours are done, and can really do stuff that was not done yet, something you cant do by just learning examples to alter).
so obviously Ikemen/Mugen would be "obvious" choice if you're really going to do a fighting, but still i wonder...
What you all think?
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Openbor is my favourite game making engine and it blows the others out of the water is what i would like to say but its not really a fair comment as i have never used anything else.
Being some what competent with openbor scripting I feel i could make almost any type of game with this engine and a 2d 1on1 vs game is on my list of things to do.
I always wanted this engine to be more easy for noobs with no scripting knowledge to use we just need a good built in spawn fuction (@DCurrent already covered this) the ability to change velocity on a frame by frame basis and to be able to change property values on a frame by frame basis. These would make basic mods a lot better i think.
Being some what competent with openbor scripting I feel i could make almost any type of game with this engine and a 2d 1on1 vs game is on my list of things to do.
I always wanted this engine to be more easy for noobs with no scripting knowledge to use we just need a good built in spawn fuction (@DCurrent already covered this) the ability to change velocity on a frame by frame basis and to be able to change property values on a frame by frame basis. These would make basic mods a lot better i think.
NED
Well-known member
I don't feel it right to point out bad mods or the fact some creators are less skilled than others.
At some time we had only average sprite swaps, with few anim + collision boxes edits... And THAT WAS what Bor mods used to be.
Then a new world of possible modding happened with Openbor.
But it doesn't mean everybody in the world who want to create a game have the skills, courage, time etc.
To me, there is absolutely no problem with Trying and showing your progress, even if it's average or bad.
I'm very admirative of people who at least tried it. I'm also part of them (Almost no scripting/coding skills, just sprite+drawing skills, but I tried)
This is an open door to evolution. Such average/bad projects can become good ones with the support of the community.
Even if some project are cancelled, at least people try.
At the same way, I would never mock or look down on people who try to draw, sprite, animate..., when they only are good for coding/scripting.
The worst would be people saying "please, create this game from scratch for me" and not even trying. This is why I respect even the small tries.
EDIT : sorry, I noticed The subject of this thread changed a lot since the first post.
My message can sound out of place. (+ my usual average english)
At some time we had only average sprite swaps, with few anim + collision boxes edits... And THAT WAS what Bor mods used to be.
Then a new world of possible modding happened with Openbor.
But it doesn't mean everybody in the world who want to create a game have the skills, courage, time etc.
To me, there is absolutely no problem with Trying and showing your progress, even if it's average or bad.
I'm very admirative of people who at least tried it. I'm also part of them (Almost no scripting/coding skills, just sprite+drawing skills, but I tried)
This is an open door to evolution. Such average/bad projects can become good ones with the support of the community.
Even if some project are cancelled, at least people try.
At the same way, I would never mock or look down on people who try to draw, sprite, animate..., when they only are good for coding/scripting.
The worst would be people saying "please, create this game from scratch for me" and not even trying. This is why I respect even the small tries.
EDIT : sorry, I noticed The subject of this thread changed a lot since the first post.
My message can sound out of place. (+ my usual average english)
O Ilusionista
Captain 100K
I don't have much experience with Ikemen, but I do have a lot with Mugen (more than 20 years, since 1999) and some experience with OpenBOR (since 2013), so maybe I can add my two cents here.
in my point of view, the "best" tool is made of two things:
- The one which fits more with your goal
- The one which you are more confortable/skilled with
A practical example: could you use a kitchen knife to loosen a screw? Yes, but you could end up destroying the screw slot. At the same time, could you pierce something with a screwdriver? Yes, but you can do more damage than you need to.
There's an analogy that I really like to use: You need to avoid eating soup using a fork. Is it ok to use? Yes, but there's something better to do with it - a spoon. Just as it is far less practical to eat pasta using a spoon.
Over time, you learn to analyze what needs to be done and find the tool that FITS BEST. (Whith a high emphasis on FITS BEST).
Practically speaking, as a user of the aforementioned engines, I would summarize as follows (based on the types of games I usually develop):
- Versus-style fighting games: Mugen/Ikemen
- Beat em up games: OpenBOR
For me - again, based on personal experience with engines, it's not a rule or a universal truth - using OpenBOR to develop fighting games is "drinking soup with a fork", just like using Mugen for beat em ups fits the same category for me.
And why do I say this? By the nature of the engines.
Some common fighting game routines are already developed in Mugen (like solid collision boxes, which make one character push the other) and floor friction. Such things are absent in OpenBOR - Can you program this? Yes, but you waste time for something that another tool offers.
As some beat em up routines are already developed in OpenBOR (like Poison/Damage over time), which are absent in Mugen. Again: is it possible to do this in Mugen? Yes, but it's a lot less practical.
Thanks much for detailed opinion.
Though as you say, for some people it makes more sense to use "with which they are already better". Which is why, for example, someone was making 3D Adventure/RPG Bionicle game using... StarCraft II (which is RTS, as you all know), or why one of my friends made a 2.5D platformer using... GZDoom - in both cases, they were using what they are most comfortable with, and most knowledgeable with, instead of learning "more fitting solutions" from scratch.
I just wanted to mention it, as rarely such happens.
Though as you say, for some people it makes more sense to use "with which they are already better". Which is why, for example, someone was making 3D Adventure/RPG Bionicle game using... StarCraft II (which is RTS, as you all know), or why one of my friends made a 2.5D platformer using... GZDoom - in both cases, they were using what they are most comfortable with, and most knowledgeable with, instead of learning "more fitting solutions" from scratch.
I just wanted to mention it, as rarely such happens.