SNES vs Genesis Sound Chip

Just wanted to add, that for all the virtues of the Super Nintendo's sound, it can never, and will never, be able to reproduce music like this:

Note the sheer amount of music, and if you've the time to do more than a mere sampling, note this is one of the most complete soundtracks to a game. With ten of the songs at the end, the OMAKEs, going unused...  it is a worthwhile listen, especially tracks Metal Squad, and Stand Up Against Myself.

You can tell the sound coming from the Genesis is coming from the Genesis. There is something pure, and clean, and real about everything that comes out of your speakers when listening to this. It's a machine, singing to you... in real time. It's pretty profound to me, when listening to a Genesis on a model 1. Compared to the Sampled nature  of even Squaresofts most enchanting tracks on the SNES, or the timeless bells of Bison's Stage in Street Fighter 2, or the orchestral melodies of Link to the Past.

All of those sampled tracks, sound like recordings, and are echoes of some other machine. You can tell just hearing the string sections or vocal choirs of Final Fantasy VI. Some games, like Chrono Trigger use a nice mix of these effects to create a more synthesized melody, which is why Chrono Trigger is exceptional, but it too is mired by its own strengths.

The Mega-Drive, has to function entirely on its own merit. So what is seen as a weakness, is in fact, the quality that makes it great. IT shares this with the PC-Engine, and the MSX and others of its generation, in that its music carries a quality that can only be emulated, what only it could reproduce.

Tell me, have you ever, heard your Super Nintendo sound like this...? Turn it up, feel it in your chest. Just doing my part, to represent a system I overlooked as a child.

Thank you for the space to share this...
 
One music that impressed me in Genesis is Devil Crash/ Dragon's Fury main theme:
So much good memories on this Pinball game  :D
 
kimono

I don't think it impossible, if you take a look a few posts back there is a Sonic the hedgehog tune that has been successfully ported to the SNES.
the tunes in yor first video.  holly smokes , they are so many complex tricks that i think it makes the task very hard

& ill repeat what i said previosly, the genesis had this freakish "real strings" phenomena, that not even chipamp or the emulators can duplicate
the next 2 posts, NInja gaiden memories pop up.

at this point, i think that i can safely say that this thread is more akin to Soundfont comparisons.

Unless corrected , the Genesis can be said to have a single soundfont-
SNES? it had many so i think its better to specify:
megaman x soundfont
Superturrican soundont
Castlevania 4 soundfont.

That is why i think that PC's are the ultimate platform for games, & for Openbor.

Damon Caskey
I was wondering if the engine could feature the reproduction of midi & actual loading of soundfonts - that would drastically cut down data size costs for music & a single game could have so many musical variables unlike anything ever seen before. (without resorting to prerecorded or big dcm sampling)
( a game that for one level has genesis music, for the next megaman x music, other DOOM 95, then Duke Nukem, etc)
i guess that basically, you would be adding the chipamp code to the Openbor engine...

https://www.chipamp.org/links/#music

related question, do the consoles have this built in MIdi feature as well?

in fact, i'm trying to find if there is communities that dedicate their time in hunting & de-compiling, Ripping & or de-constructing arcade & console game's soundfonts.

For example - In Night slashers i used Decap-Attack's Genesis music  for the first kNight confrontation, BUT it would have been much much better to actually USe the SOundfont that the actual Night slashers arcade uses.
Overclocked remix does not seem to have any arcade chiptunes, so that may mean that a project like that is not existant AFAIK

how? well , i can't remember how i did it (did it years ago) , it was something like chiptunes for winamp, but there was this option where you could choose what MIDI table or font to use, & i was able to make a King's quest MIDI sound like an N64 game.

So from what i can see on youtube , many have done this, & in fact there is a lot of this going on with Goldeney & Perfect Dark mods
(i think that Subdrag had made a program that converts soundfonts)
 
oldyz said:
at this point, i think that i can safely say that this thread is more akin to Soundfont comparisons.

oldyz, first, I wasn't going to say anything before, but since you asked for my input, I'll start by noting I don't really appreciate having my thread intentionally derailed. I'd hoped to have to have a meaningful discussion about the technical nuances of the chips - not a thread full of video links. In the future if you want to change the subject - don't. Start your own thread.

I was wondering if the engine could feature the reproduction of midi & actual loading of soundfonts...

Absolutely not. There's far more to MIDI and chiptunes than you realize. Plombo explained in detail here:

But for fun, and to satisfy your curiosity, I'll answer your question about how MIDI works. The "complicated sound-effects container file" you've described is called a SoundFont, but that's not all you need to play a MIDI file. You also need a synthesizer, in either hardware or software.  Computers and game consoles used to have a synthesizer as part of the audio hardware until the mid-1990s.  Since then, synthesizers have been primarily software. Even with the same SoundFont, different synthesizers will sound different. If you want everyone to hear the same sound, everyone has to be using the same synth with the same SoundFont and the same settings.  High-quality software MIDI synthesizers such as FluidSynth are also very complicated and CPU-intensive, another reason we're not considering MIDI support

What went unsaid is OpenBOR is not the SNES. It supports playback at higher sample rates than the synths are capable of outputting. There's no reason you can't record chiptunes with original quality.  It's true sound files are larger, but they are also streamed (you can't do that with chiptunes) and do not limit authors in any way.

Short version - it's not even remotely feasible or worth it.

DC
 
Damon Caskey said:
first, I wasn't going to say anything before, but since you asked for my input, I'll start by noting I don't really appreciate having my thread intentionally derailed. I'd hoped to have to have a meaningful discussion about the technical nuances of the chips - not a thread full of video links. In the future if you want to change the subject - don't. Start your own thread.

Its Ok, I stink @ making thread titles tho, if i make the thread & see that its crud, pleas change it.\
Sorry this got de-railed, but i felt that we got to a point where the topic was pretty much settled after i realized that, in reality, comparing the 2 system's sound chips is not really a thing, they work in such different ways that pretty much the topic was over...
thus the videos & all....

Damon Caskey said:
Absolutely not. There's far more to MIDI and chiptunes than you realize. Plombo explained in detail here:

But for fun, and to satisfy your curiosity, I'll answer your question about how MIDI works. The "complicated sound-effects container file" you've described is called a SoundFont, but that's not all you need to play a MIDI file. You also need a synthesizer, in either hardware or software.  Computers and game consoles used to have a synthesizer as part of the audio hardware until the mid-1990s.  Since then, synthesizers have been primarily software. Even with the same SoundFont, different synthesizers will sound different. If you want everyone to hear the same sound, everyone has to be using the same synth with the same SoundFont and the same settings.  High-quality software MIDI synthesizers such as FluidSynth are also very complicated and CPU-intensive, another reason we're not considering MIDI support

What went unsaid is OpenBOR is not the SNES. It supports playback at higher sample rates than the synths are capable of outputting. There's no reason you can't record chiptunes with original quality.  It's true sound files are larger, but they are also streamed (you can't do that with chiptunes) and do not limit authors in any way.

Short version - it's not even remotely feasible or worth it.

DC

MMM, thought as much, it would be like enabling Openbor to work as an universal sound chip emulator for all known chiptune systems... and that gets complicated.
One thing that i think Plombo got wrong tho - i think midi is still hardware based & a basic part of PCs integrated soundchip -
true that different PC's have a different sound, but its not so different, that is why if you download the  Sharp X68000 emulator, you will see that castlevania's music will sound very slightly different in one machine from another.

as for benefits, do you think that a streamed file can have real-time audio effects or distortions like Yoshi's Island on the SNES?
(Touch fuzzy, get Dizzy), because until now , i think that sort of thing is best accomplished with MIDI, but more processor intensive with streamed files.
 
One thing that i think Plombo got wrong tho - i think midi is still hardware based & a basic part of PCs integrated soundchip

Plombo knows what he is talking about. Modern sound chips don't have hardware synthesis. At best they'll include a basic tone generator and even that's pretty rare. Playback quality has reached the point where it is more practical to synthesize sounds during production and play them back as samples. On the very rare occasion sounds are synthesized locally, it is done with software.

as for benefits, do you think that a streamed file can have real-time audio effects or distortions like Yoshi's Island on the SNES?
(Touch fuzzy, get Dizzy), because until now , i think that sort of thing is best accomplished with MIDI, but more processor intensive with streamed files

That is precisely what modern chips are built to do. OpenBOR has to do it with software, but it's still much less expensive than trying to emulate synths.

DC
 
Damon Caskey
here is part of my confusion, i thought that Openbor had support for .spc files, but i see now that it is MUGEN that does:
https://mugenarchive.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=8293--plugin-winmugen-sound-plugins-col-multiple&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=4ae80e2364622de1a8bbf927397cf836050a2447-1580708434-0-AUG66BjxvZFgl4XLWkqilszuifCvD232TFda_rJpVFP-XErLqcz_eQ7QWUdZXYjrhqOPYdYZ6OVor4Mt2BGQeFdZydFubw-6hY7eOVmOOgAaO-XWp3ZNkxoq8ID1nTKath0msoSiN_WrGZFJoz3kOfmGxiQMN-QVS1DnkOcXXx5YZUBtoK2HCmJo7NgQXI4zqB6vM2ol_aX1FViQlzzqpG5OcNyNmquMa5lqcU84meMxxyuHIQgyQ5X30vzGvLlSC_yZRDZcZZCd_Xpb85zSD6HtIaikvlE96KxIqGAOGASCKxUmSZHpi9xbxR_fFBTPw6fhVmGE6P-EfJqYy31ti-ZXJMeHeC5ZwLn0tZQMUtUA72vbnTRIwpv0etzpj0Asjw

Now, AFAIK you can make window's default/basic midi soundfont change (well at least with XP & 7) so one way that people can make their program change soundfonts is to have the program have windows reproduce the midi, but also the program can tell windows what soundfonts to use.
this approach is the opposite thing that a tool called NMthing does - this program runs with N64 emulators & WWF no Mercy, it detects when an N64 chiptune plays & replaces it with a .wav or .mp3 reproduced trough windows.

these approaches take some prep. Users would actually have to have the font file/wav/mp3 in an organized folder that corresponds to the set
 
Sorry oldyz, but this discussion has already happened at length, and I'm not the type of person to participate in round robins.

You already have the ability to play any music you want at any synth output fidelity. Locally generated chiptunes are not on the table for OpenBOR. That's all I have to say here.

DC
 
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