In Progress Street Fighter 89 The Final Fight by Machok v3.7

[Mr.Q!]

Jugglecost is a very good way to balance things besides AI. Well, the more moves you add the more different it will get. I faced this with Fight Forever and I took the rout of having my characters doing hundreds of things if you have enough creativity, I don't care, people that might want the closest experience to orginal FFight should either play the actual game or just focus on doing punch, jumping kicks, and grabs. Like I said, usually it's up to the player, I know there are people that actually care and limit themselves to test their skills, they even record they longruns this way as a challenge, then there are others that go for a stylish gameplay, either of them are ok.

The more important thing is, you are the one that should be having fun playing the game. At the end of the day, you are sharing your vison of things, so it's up to you all the time about what is in the game and whatnot.

I want all characters to be feral beasts in my game and I don't care, lol, because I know enemy AI will limit people trying to show off with long combos, they will have to earn it. They can go in a safer route and try just mashing the attack button like the original game and that's it, problem solved. As for the replay value, branching would be great because I will tell you my honest fear on this project:

I have seen so many new areas for the original stages that this game might be aimed for the dudes that have very short time to play and like saving their runs to resume them later, because for me, I would never play a beat¿em up that goes over an hour long more than once. Having new areas introduces harder enemies from the game earlier than they originally appear, so maybe at later stages there won't be any surprise factor/nothing new to expect other than making the enemies having more than 1 AI pattern maybe? or having a larger group of enemies for the sake of difficulty. It is a very risky scenario, hopefully you can balance things and make the game a fun experience and not a tedious one.

 

[Kratus]

make them more aggressive or always attacking are the answer

You could use the thinkscript event to customize the enemy A.I., same as I'm doing in the SORX. I can share some codes with you if you like the idea.

I will try to improve the game mechanics, for example for slide movement (d f j)
this is too easy to do any time so for future version this movement can only be access only when running then press down with attack. juggle attacks also won't be as cheap as before.

Usually in fighting games the cost/benefit curve can balance things. So, the better the attack, the greater its cost (or harder to make too).

so regularly they're not even aware of any new animations

I understand you, the same thing has happened since the first SOR2X version. Some people usually don't explore games too much, frequently I receive long lists of requests of things that I already added.
I recommend randomly posting some videos of your own playthroughs to show people everything the game can offer, it can stimulate people to know more.

The more important thing is, you are the one that should be having fun playing the game. At the end of the day, you are sharing your vison of things, so it's up to you all the time about what is in the game and whatnot.

Totally agree, the author is the first player that must enjoy the game. And we don't need to replicate the originals all the time, like if the differences are some kind of "problem" to be fixed. IMO every game is an independent project, with its own gameplay, mechanics, etc, it's a pure expression of the author's point of view, like an artist making a picture.
So, I prefer to play the classics directly if I must always follow the classics, we are only risking something new because we want to improve the originals with new ideas.

 

[machok]

I have seen so many new areas for the original stages that this game might be aimed for the dudes that have very short time to play and like saving their runs to resume them later, because for me, I would never play a beat¿em up that goes over an hour long more than once. Having new areas introduces harder enemies from the game earlier than they originally appear, so maybe at later stages there won't be any surprise factor/nothing new to expect other than making the enemies having more than 1 AI pattern maybe? or having a larger group of enemies for the sake of difficulty. It is a very risky scenario, hopefully you can balance things and make the game a fun experience and not a tedious one.

Thanks @Mr.Q! I always pay attention to enemy spawns in every custom stage that I have I studied a lot of Capcom tricks on the original game for this
hoping that spawn enemies won't be boring or too difficult but it still feels interesting to play

You could use the thinkscript event to customize the enemy A.I., same as I'm doing in the SORX. I can share some codes with you if you like the idea.

Can we make thugs always moving to behind players? They always doing this in arcade and I don't know how to do it
Also I usually always use inline script for this, for example J and two.p attack and run movement I put this by attack# so they will doing this randomly, I really interested if I can do many things to improve by adding think script

Usually in fighting games the cost/benefit curve can balance things. So, the better the attack, the greater its cost (or harder to make too).

Yes thank you for this idea, I'll balancing things for next demo release

I understand you, the same thing has happened since the first SOR2X version. Some people usually don't explore games too much, frequently I receive long lists of requests of things that I already added.
I recommend randomly posting some videos of your own playthroughs to show people everything the game can offer, it can stimulate people to know more.

I kept doing it in time, the thing is my subscribers are so few so I'm trying to "invite" big youtubers-streamers to do it for me but now I no longer care about it and will enjoy and focus to what I'm doing

Totally agree, the author is the first player that must enjoy the game. And we don't need to replicate the originals all the time, like if the differences are some kind of "problem" to be fixed. IMO every game is an independent project, with its own gameplay, mechanics, etc, it's a pure expression of the author's point of view, like an artist making a picture.
So, I prefer to play the classics directly if I must always follow the classics, we are only risking something new because we want to improve the originals with new ideas.

 

[DCurrent]

I kept doing it in time, the thing is my subscribers are so few so I'm trying to "invite" big youtubers-streamers to do it for me but now I no longer care about it and will enjoy and focus to what I'm doing

Yeah, don't worry about that too much. Build quality, and they'll come, but also be prepared for frustrating inaccuracies and omissions. Top Hat Gaming Man is one of the most well known examples I can think of. He's a quality speaker and has great topic selection, but his research, depth of coverage (as in the lack of it), and the various inaccuracies made me cringe to the point I finally just quit watching.

Modern Vintage Gamer is another... good speaker, knowledgeable, but absurdly biased and not above a lot of inaccuracies as well.

I could go on, but the point is, don't cater to content creators, BE the content creator. Then grow yourself a thick skin, because internet.

DC

 

[Whackadoo]

@DCurrent: I know the feeling. If you want an entertaining youtuber doing his research, I warmly recommend PatmanQC.

This guy only reviews official content but his retrospectives are some of the best on Youtube, full of details, juicy tidbits and rare pictures. When he's reviewing a game, he will examine the original game and its sequels. He will even go out his way to review the various ports (consoles, pc and handhelds).

I admire PatmanQC's work. For the record, in 2015, this guy lost his hands and feet due to complications from pneumonia but it didn't slow him down. Like he said, he didn't lose his passion for videogames. A lesson of courage.

Here're two of his reviews, one about Final Fight and the other about Gauntlet:

note: ahem! sorry for the off-topic.

 

[Whackadoo]

sorry double post

 

[Mr.Q!]

Hey @NED, just finished my version of Maki, so here are all my custom sprites. I will post some gameplay so you can have an idea on her many moves in my WIP mod topic.

 

[NED]

Hey @NED, just finished my version of Maki, so here are all my custom sprites. I will post some gameplay so you can have an idea on her many moves in my WIP mod topic.

Thanks a lot @Mr.Q! They will be very helpful to make some CPS1 customs!
You did a very good job! And your gameplay vids are absolutely great!

 

[machok]

Hey @NED, just finished my version of Maki, so here are all my custom sprites. I will post some gameplay so you can have an idea on her many moves in my WIP mod topic.

having this much base movement for Maki would be huge help thank you so much @Mr.Q!

I could go on, but the point is, don't cater to content creators, BE the content creator. Then grow yourself a thick skin, because internet.

DC

@DCurrent @Kratus @Whackadoo




@NED @danno
Ok guys I always struggling when designing Cody new animations, Guy is much easier to make in my opinion

1. Cody doesn't have any examples of runattack moves (I am using ruffian kick for this somehow it doesn't really fit not sure)
2. Cody doesn't have the air combo (well I think he shouldn't)
3. dead end irony (ground combo) I've been trying to test it for 3 days and it's no good. Yes even with that fancy shadowtrail, final destruction is good tho
and so on..
I already have almost 3 times more new animations for Cody than Guy but the progress isn't good. I hope Maki's progress won't be this difficult because she has similar moves to Guy and Haggar was clearly a wrestler so if we have enough slam motion animation I think everything is good but for Cody, what style exactly does he use??


what does this mean? what style?


and below here are cody bio from scrollboss page


a tough street fighter skilled with knives, so that's all

 

[danno]

I personally think he's more a street fighting style, like using every tool in the book, so instead of treating him like guy he should be more weapon/environment style, lots of knives and pipes (in air maybe) dirty moves like throwing rocks doesn't do much damage but stuns the enemy, head butting, spitting, cheating moves like maybe even two weapons at once (sodom) like knife pipe, something unique the other players can't do. think dirty fighting with style.

The design problem you'll have is you're gonna have to exaggerate each character, Guy is a ninja more, Cody is a street fighter more and Haggar is a wrestler more, so for cody I would use weapons more in his attacks, maybe even having access to his own special weapon like a baseball bat.

Edit:

maybe change throwing rocks into throwing dirt/dust as you can apply that to most environments, also another move like kicking dirt from the floor into peoples faces.

 

[NED]

I personally think he's more a street fighting style, like using every tool in the book, so instead of treating him like guy he should be more weapon/environment style, lots of knives and pipes (in air maybe) dirty moves like throwing rocks doesn't do much damage but stuns the enemy, head butting, spitting, cheating moves like maybe even two weapons at once (sodom) like knife pipe, something unique the other players can't do. think dirty fighting with style.

The design problem you'll have is you're gonna have to exaggerate each character, Guy is a ninja more, Cody is a street fighter more and Haggar is a wrestler more, so for cody I would use weapons more in his attacks, maybe even having access to his own special weapon like a baseball bat.

I would not say better than Danno.

About "martial arts" the meaning can be very vague for Japanese created characters.
Just make him a street brawler with weapon sometimes.

 

[machok]

@danno @NED
Street fighting-brawler style Ok I'll think about it. So I've been stuck with this "hero" theme Cody for a long time while he was a street fighter from the start who use dirty methods to win a fight. Maybe he was calm before the SF Alpha story but the way he fights should remains the same Thanks guys

this is what I have right now which I don't like it, will try to customize it more (like danno said, maybe with weapons)

 

[danno]

I think instead of having him doing a running combo like Guy he should pull out a baseball bat and hit them with it, make him different from how Guy is played, I don't think he should be so "hero" like you think, don't forget he went to prison shortly after this

 

[NED]

@danno @NED
Street fighting-brawler style Ok I'll think about it. So I've been stuck with this "hero" theme Cody for a long time while he was a street fighter from the start who use dirty methods to win a fight. Maybe he was calm before the SF Alpha story but the way he fights should remains the same Thanks guys

this is what I have right now which I don't like it, will try to customize it more (like danno said, maybe with weapons)

Yes, I think he should have a single attack instead of a running combo.
OR
Using a running combo with shorter reach start moves. Runattack attempts with something (not sure what),then on hit, -> One punch, another punch, a strong kick.

Because for now he seems like to use strong-type kicks chained very fast, doesn't look so natural ingame.

 

[warciox]

Hey @NED, just finished my version of Maki, so here are all my custom sprites. I will post some gameplay so you can have an idea on her many moves in my WIP mod topic.

beautiful

 

[machok]

A little Chat

I'll also stop offering my file to big youtuber/streamer Initially I wanted my mod to be more widely known but they play this game so regularly they're not even aware of any new animations at all so now I don't care about it anymore, I'm just going to enjoy the whole process.

wait, someone just asked me about this, Sorry for my bad English what I mean is Youtuber/streamer with xxx.xxx amount of subsribers and they're not from here so they dont even know about the updates they just playing the games regularly.
When I released a private demo my goal is to get a lot of suggestions so this will get me better and that's why I'll stop offering my files to someone outside since I don't get any of this from them

so please don't get me wrong I love you guys so much

 

[O Ilusionista]

this is what I have right now which I don't like it,

I like it. I would just suggest you to interchange the high and low pain reactions on the combo, like FF does. For example, the fist hit could cause high pain animation instead of low

 

[Whackadoo]

...I think everything is good but for Cody, what style exactly does he use??

According to the SNES manual of Final Fight, Cody "holds a fifth degree black belt in Karate and is a skilled knife fighter." Also the headline of his movelist is entitled "CODY'S BOXING TECHNIQUE". (source)

Further evidence, the Capcom Fandom page says: "Cody has practiced boxing and martial arts since he was 9". (source)

So Karate and boxing make sense. However, later Capcom changed the above and tried to present Cody as an "Underworld brawling fighter" who learned his ways in the tough slums of Metro City. Finally in Street Fighter V Cody became the Mayor of Metro City. ^^

 

[don vecta]

Well, according to his biohgraphy, he's considered a fighting genius that can adapt and maneuver skills easily sometimes just by watching. While most people dismiss the Capcom USA's biographies, perhaps Karate might have been one of the martial arts he learned as a kid (he started at 9). And since it's considered Cody is one of the strongest fighters in the SF universe (according to Oro and Gouki), yeah, he definitely can be considered a prodigy of several styles.

 

[Whackadoo]

TL;DR: maybe Cody is a little too fast. ^^

Dear, Machok! I understand you're somewhat dissatisfied with the current version of Cody. I was thinking about it and here're some food for thought:

I think to stay (relatively) faithful to original Final Fight, Cody should have a moderate Speed. If you recollect, Cody is often regarded as in the middle between Haggar and Guy.

In your recent vids, I feel Cody is a little too fast. That was my opinion about the speed.

Now here’s another thing, the Timings:

Your design of Cody added a lot of frames in-between his moves, it’s smooth and gorgeous to see. However, I believe it’s somewhat a departure from the original arcade Final Fight. Indeed there’s a "stiffness" in the original characters/enemies that is unmistakable. That and the fact that their moves are not perfectly smooth.

I think that one-of-a-kind rythm is one of the signatures of Final Fight. I humbly believe @Mr.Q! nailed that staccato almost to perfection when he made Maki.

This is just the fair opinion of a loyal fan, not the absolute truth, you know. ^^

A sidenote about Timings

I remember a famous vid commented by a Streets of Rage 4 developer -Jordi- explaining how they worked so hard trying to nail the timings/the peculiar rythm of Streets of Rage 2. The trick the devs used was to put SOR4 and SOR2 side by side on the same screen to perfect these timings. Fascinating. And most of all: it worked!

Here’s the vid starting at that critical part. Of course the whole vid is worth watching. Even though they speak French, English subtitles are included: