N
Nozomi
Guest
Maybe someone have to make other openbor forum.
It's time to make other openbor forum/website
It's time to make other openbor forum/website
O Ilusionista
Captain 100K
While I support it (since its always helpful to have many places talking about the engine),I don't get what is the link between your reply and this post...
Point of fact, there ARE alternate forums. I know of at least three of them right off the top of my head. They have very little activity though, and almost all of what they do have are either carbon copy posts of things available here or module warehousing.
There is a very good reason for this. OpenBOR is NOT Mugen or any other application. The Mugen community essentially amounts to a fan group, because beyond some stalled out clone projects and hollering at Elecbyte, they really have no control what so ever of the topic itself (the Mugen engine). We do, and that makes the OpenBOR community a very different animal. We are a development team with an integrated fandom. This unique combination is what has allowed OpenBOR to gradually progress from being an interesting but extremely limited novelty into what is arguably the most versatile sprite based engine ever conceived. Those two halves drive each other. One without the other goes nowhere.
Why does that matter? Because experienced developers aren't going to support fragmentation. I could get into why - but unless you are an experienced developer, you probably wouldn't really understand. Long and short, they will stay with the "main" community, wherever that may be. This has been proven time and time again.
Every time someone decides they disagree with our policies or that they could run things better, they scamper off and start up a new community on this or that freeboardhere.com, and sure a few people head over and join them. But it doesn't take long for members to realize if they want to get anywhere with their projects, they will need help from the people who know the engine best. Wanna guess who those are?
Because of this (and many other reasons) long ago we discovered through experience that splitting the community across several forums is a liability, not a strength. Until it grows beyond a single forum's capacity to handle things (and we're no where near that), it's best to keep our eggs in one basket. The other way has been tried several times and failed miserably. In fact, at one point even the engine itself had multiple branches. With other applications that might have been a good thing. For a user content driven app like OpenBOR it is and was an utter disaster. Any long time members here remember that mess? The multiple incompatible MYBORs, the Vets vs. Noobs thing, and all that other crap that went with it? Wanna go back to it? I didn't think so. This way works.
Now obviously I can't stop anyone from going off and starting a new community, nor would I. But for those who want to try, know two things: First, you won't have support of the team that builds the very thing you are talking about, and all of your knowledge will be second hand. Second, anyone can start up a forum, but running a successful community is an entirely different thing, and you'll quickly discover it takes much more than being the man in charge. It's an expensive, frustrating, time consuming undertaking (as in years) - and often a thankless one.
Just my two cents.
TL;DR: It won't work, but good luck anyway.
DC
There is a very good reason for this. OpenBOR is NOT Mugen or any other application. The Mugen community essentially amounts to a fan group, because beyond some stalled out clone projects and hollering at Elecbyte, they really have no control what so ever of the topic itself (the Mugen engine). We do, and that makes the OpenBOR community a very different animal. We are a development team with an integrated fandom. This unique combination is what has allowed OpenBOR to gradually progress from being an interesting but extremely limited novelty into what is arguably the most versatile sprite based engine ever conceived. Those two halves drive each other. One without the other goes nowhere.
Why does that matter? Because experienced developers aren't going to support fragmentation. I could get into why - but unless you are an experienced developer, you probably wouldn't really understand. Long and short, they will stay with the "main" community, wherever that may be. This has been proven time and time again.
Every time someone decides they disagree with our policies or that they could run things better, they scamper off and start up a new community on this or that freeboardhere.com, and sure a few people head over and join them. But it doesn't take long for members to realize if they want to get anywhere with their projects, they will need help from the people who know the engine best. Wanna guess who those are?
Because of this (and many other reasons) long ago we discovered through experience that splitting the community across several forums is a liability, not a strength. Until it grows beyond a single forum's capacity to handle things (and we're no where near that), it's best to keep our eggs in one basket. The other way has been tried several times and failed miserably. In fact, at one point even the engine itself had multiple branches. With other applications that might have been a good thing. For a user content driven app like OpenBOR it is and was an utter disaster. Any long time members here remember that mess? The multiple incompatible MYBORs, the Vets vs. Noobs thing, and all that other crap that went with it? Wanna go back to it? I didn't think so. This way works.
Now obviously I can't stop anyone from going off and starting a new community, nor would I. But for those who want to try, know two things: First, you won't have support of the team that builds the very thing you are talking about, and all of your knowledge will be second hand. Second, anyone can start up a forum, but running a successful community is an entirely different thing, and you'll quickly discover it takes much more than being the man in charge. It's an expensive, frustrating, time consuming undertaking (as in years) - and often a thankless one.
Just my two cents.
TL;DR: It won't work, but good luck anyway.
DC
erf_beto
New member
I'm gonna change my username to "OpenBor FanBoy"Damon Caskey said:
You speak so much truth, DC! I remember the day when you (or utunnels?) announced true color mode was available and everyone was like "whaaat? Is it April 1st yet?". Since then, changes in the engine have been pilling up on top of each other, and everything is so different from where it was.
So I fully understand maintaining engine development in one forum. Mod creation can be anywhere, but language dependency aside, it's undeniable that this is the right place to be.
O Ilusionista
Captain 100K
I have to agree with DC here (even - I can be wrong but its how it sounds to me - DC seams to not like Mugen).
Mugen commnuities are nice, but some of them are just full of stupids which thinks they rule the universe or owns mugen.
This is why, for example, I do not go on the Elecbyte (the creator of Mugen) when I heard they were back: quickly, a group of members acted by policing and ruling what the other users should talk or which idea should be useful. Its hilarious, the Elecbyte's forum is one of the worst mugen forum ever.
I clear remember that I posted on a "What Mugen is missing?" topic some suggestions which Mugen could borrow from OpenBOR. One of the replies was SO stupid (while it has some valid points) that I quit the discussion. You can see it here: http://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.1746644
O Ilusionista said:
No no, I don't have any issue with Mugen or the community. My statement about the difference above is actually something one of their community members pointed out some time ago. The point I was making is that the Mugen community is mostly stuck in a similar position as most fandoms. They are at the mercy of Elecbyte (which thus far has been notorious for taking advantage of that fact). Here the developers and end users are part of the same unit. That's what makes us so different, and why I was saying it isn't a good idea to spread ourselves out over multiple forums.
It is true I have zero tolerance for keyboard warrior behavior some Mugen communities became known for and squash any sign of it over here, but each establishment has its own way of doing things. Ours works for us, but it can be a bit foreign to people not used to it.
DC
best part is mugen community actually doesnt have anything to do with coding it, here we have access to sourcecode and we talk with devs who are respected members our forum, i know there was a lot of bad openbor mods but also lot of bad mugen characters , it doesnt show capabilities of the engine at all, you can read manual and script manual to really imagine whats possible to do because i think that great mod with many ideas and features is still yet to come but who has time, we do it for ourselves, for fun and because we wanted to when we were younger.
jiam said:
First, you missed the point of the discussion.
Second, an experienced programer isn't more likely to make their own engine - because most experienced programers know better than to try and reinvent the wheel. He would either script around whatever "limitation" was in his way, make competent suggestions, or join the team and build upon the work of past developers. This is exactly what brought every single one of our past and present development team members here, including myself.
DC