In Progress Streets of Rage 2X By Kratus 2.3.1
- Thread starter Adam hunter
- Start date
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- Tags
- streets of rage
The project is currently under development.
O Ilusionista said:hi Kratus.
I've tried your game, and I see some very good work on it. I liked what you did with webm, its way more practical than gif.
There are some cool scripts too, congrats.
I will write a full feedback when I have time, but there are some points I would like to share:
- The game suffer from a lot of slow down - down to be unplayable - in my Android phone (Quad-core 2.3 GHz, 4 GB RAM). I can notice a little slow down when playing the webm videos, but when you execute the Rage move, everything slow downs to somethinig like 5fps. I would need to investigate further, but it looks to be the after image/ shadow trail the culprit.
- I see there is a lot of things going in the Update script and maybe you would need to optmize it. For example, even playing with 1 player, I can see some stuff related to the other players in that menu.
- The menu could be reduced to not be so poluted. Here is my suggestion:
(the press start would be the line with Hit and Max hit)
Thanks man!
About the Android I still do not know what causes this, in my Android phone happen the same thing. I will investigate too. About the scripts, I will try to improve in the next update. About the menu I agree with you and I´m testing RPG style lifebar.
Mr.Din
Member
Good to know that you're taking the feedback well, SoR mods do tend to have a tall order. However there's a bit of a misconception that wanting certain things to feel good means wanting the game to be like the originals which couldn't be further from the truth. To address some points.
As stated above the original games have little to do with my critique of this issue with the bosses. They just aren't well designed and in fact don't really have actual weaknesses. Bosses already counter in the middle of your standard combo, this would be understandable in a spamming situation but it happens at any instance. The bosses rage attack drain your entire meter which prevents you from counter with your special move or using the rage attack at all. Blocking as mentioned below doesn't function well as an alternative either let alone trying to use the counter. At best your left to resort to juggling or constantly running around until your meter fills up to try and hit him with the rage meter. This pretty much results in bosses becoming a chore.
Yeah after some experimentation I found out the blue bar is for blocking and countering it seems.
Honestly while I see the ambition this rolling system isn't any better and doesn't really feel useful. The reason for this is because I can run vertically as is and even jump vertically as I recently discovered. Rolling may not have been as free form in SoR3 but it didn't really need to be, it's there for a quick Dodge when all else fails and you don't want to spend meter on special moves. This roll system adds a whole extra input to move and just feels rigged, forward roll doesn't really seem necessary either and in most cases leave me in the enemies hands. Again reiterating the statement above this isn't about how the originals did things it's about fluidity.
As for blocking, hold to block would indeed be a better option. I can't really say too much on it as I'm not too interested in using the feature, blocking never panned out well for me in games that used it but I'm certain others might appreciate it more.
While I understand not wanting to use life bar for specials, the difference between this and a Vs fighting game is that you're not fighting multiple opponents at once and you're not in need of a defensive special to get enemies off of you in a pinch when it comes to vs fighters. It would be better to switch it around where rage and forward special uses meter only and defensive special uses meter and life as it's a crucial move that's needed at all times.
I'd have to disagree here entirely as the grapple system was a core mechanic that offered a lot of good options. However this isn't really a feature that is top priority so I'll leave that be.
- Bikers juggle you with these same explosions and even worse hit you with one immediately after hitting you with their bikes.
Explosions aren't just explosions when you can't even land on the ground because so many grenades are being thrown at once, it just doesn't work well with how the juggle system works. Just in my video alone I had to watch for a good 5 seconds as my character got juggles to death by bikers running across the screen, hitting me with unavoidable grenades.
KratusGH said:
As stated above the original games have little to do with my critique of this issue with the bosses. They just aren't well designed and in fact don't really have actual weaknesses. Bosses already counter in the middle of your standard combo, this would be understandable in a spamming situation but it happens at any instance. The bosses rage attack drain your entire meter which prevents you from counter with your special move or using the rage attack at all. Blocking as mentioned below doesn't function well as an alternative either let alone trying to use the counter. At best your left to resort to juggling or constantly running around until your meter fills up to try and hit him with the rage meter. This pretty much results in bosses becoming a chore.
**KratusGH: I agree, in parts. About the blue meter... Well, when i see original SOR3 for the first time, the "OK" bar was strange, but a few minutes playing solved thisI´ve maked a "How to Play" section explaining that. About the enemy life and combo counter I agree, can be improved in the next update. Maybe a enemy lifebar in the head, like RPG games.
Yeah after some experimentation I found out the blue bar is for blocking and countering it seems.
**KratusGH: I agree, in parts. About Rolling, I´ve played a lot the original SOR games and the original dodge system (up, up or down, down) is too much poor compared to a free dodge system like 3D games to any direction. It´s simple, hold a direction and tap Dodge button. About Blocking, is easy to make and I´m changing to "hold button block", because I agree that the press button a lot of times is terrible
Honestly while I see the ambition this rolling system isn't any better and doesn't really feel useful. The reason for this is because I can run vertically as is and even jump vertically as I recently discovered. Rolling may not have been as free form in SoR3 but it didn't really need to be, it's there for a quick Dodge when all else fails and you don't want to spend meter on special moves. This roll system adds a whole extra input to move and just feels rigged, forward roll doesn't really seem necessary either and in most cases leave me in the enemies hands. Again reiterating the statement above this isn't about how the originals did things it's about fluidity.
As for blocking, hold to block would indeed be a better option. I can't really say too much on it as I'm not too interested in using the feature, blocking never panned out well for me in games that used it but I'm certain others might appreciate it more.
While I understand not wanting to use life bar for specials, the difference between this and a Vs fighting game is that you're not fighting multiple opponents at once and you're not in need of a defensive special to get enemies off of you in a pinch when it comes to vs fighters. It would be better to switch it around where rage and forward special uses meter only and defensive special uses meter and life as it's a crucial move that's needed at all times.
Yet again, this had little to do with the originals and more to do with proper execution. Juggles are useful against bosses although not really that fun but the problem here is that there's nothing you can do about being juggled by multiple enemies, no aerial recovery, no aerial special etc. For good reference look at games like guardian heroes or the newly released FightnRage where fighting in the air is properly tuned. While I don't really find it to be fitting for SoR I'm not entirely against a good juggled system.
I'd have to disagree here entirely as the grapple system was a core mechanic that offered a lot of good options. However this isn't really a feature that is top priority so I'll leave that be.
- Explosion radius is HUGE and unavoidable. Case in point the bike when Jack jumps off, if your trapped in a corner with no special meter, you're screwed and this is the first level.
- Bikers juggle you with these same explosions and even worse hit you with one immediately after hitting you with their bikes.
Explosions aren't just explosions when you can't even land on the ground because so many grenades are being thrown at once, it just doesn't work well with how the juggle system works. Just in my video alone I had to watch for a good 5 seconds as my character got juggles to death by bikers running across the screen, hitting me with unavoidable grenades.
I appreciate you taking the time to listen to the concerns. Looking forward to the update.
DintheAbary said:Good to know that you're taking the feedback well, SoR mods do tend to have a tall order. However there's a bit of a misconception that wanting certain things to feel good means wanting the game to be like the originals which couldn't be further from the truth. To address some points.
KratusGH said:
As stated above the original games have little to do with my critique of this issue with the bosses. They just aren't well designed and in fact don't really have actual weaknesses (**Yes, have weakness, need to explore more**). Bosses already counter in the middle of your standard combo (**Yes, this is intentional but they need special bar for it**), this would be understandable in a spamming situation but it happens at any instance. The bosses rage attack drain your entire meter which prevents you from counter with your special move or using the rage attack at all (**Yes, this is intentional, the heroes can do it too and the RAGE skill was made to be feared**). Blocking as mentioned below doesn't function well as an alternative either let alone trying to use the counter (**Blocking = NO DAMAGE TAKEN!! It is not good???**). At best your left to resort to juggling or constantly running around until your meter fills up to try and hit him with the rage meter (**Yes, this is intentional, they are BOSSES and exists to bring a lot of problem for the players**). This pretty much results in bosses becoming a chore.
**KratusGH: I agree, in parts. About the blue meter... Well, when i see original SOR3 for the first time, the "OK" bar was strange, but a few minutes playing solved this
Yeah after some experimentation I found out the blue bar is for blocking and countering it seems. (**Nice**)
**KratusGH: I agree, in parts. About Rolling, I´ve played a lot the original SOR games and the original dodge system (up, up or down, down) is too much poor compared to a free dodge system like 3D games to any direction. It´s simple, hold a direction and tap Dodge button. About Blocking, is easy to make and I´m changing to "hold button block", because I agree that the press button a lot of times is terrible
Honestly while I see the ambition this rolling system isn't any better and doesn't really feel useful. The reason for this is because I can run vertically as is and even jump vertically as I recently discovered. Rolling may not have been as free form in SoR3 but it didn't really need to be, it's there for a quick Dodge when all else fails and you don't want to spend meter on special moves. This roll system adds a whole extra input to move and just feels rigged, forward roll doesn't really seem necessary either and in most cases leave me in the enemies hands. Again reiterating the statement above this isn't about how the originals did things it's about fluidity. (**Yes, this is intentional. Roll is not only a cool move. During roll you are INVINCIBLE and can escape from a lot of attacks, including the feared explosions and bosses rage. I don´t understand how this could not be good**)
As for blocking, hold to block would indeed be a better option. I can't really say too much on it as I'm not too interested in using the feature, blocking never panned out well for me in games that used it but I'm certain others might appreciate it more. (**Nice**)
While I understand not wanting to use life bar for specials, the difference between this and a Vs fighting game is that you're not fighting multiple opponents at once and you're not in need of a defensive special to get enemies off of you in a pinch when it comes to vs fighters. It would be better to switch it around where rage and forward special uses meter only and defensive special uses meter and life as it's a crucial move that's needed at all times. (**This could be a good idea to test, only the defensive special will use life bar for emergency, not the forward special. But not only VS games use it, some of multiplayer games don´t mix special bar with life bar too**)
Yet again, this had little to do with the originals and more to do with proper execution. Juggles are useful against bosses although not really that fun but the problem here is that there's nothing you can do about being juggled by multiple enemies, no aerial recovery, no aerial special etc. For good reference look at games like guardian heroes or the newly released FightnRage where fighting in the air is properly tuned. While I don't really find it to be fitting for SoR I'm not entirely against a good juggled system. (**Juggle is only a complement to end combo with more hits, if you don´t like, don´t need to use. However, an aerial recovery at cost of a special bar could be a good idea... Sammy already have aerial special too**)
I'd have to disagree here entirely as the grapple system was a core mechanic that offered a lot of good options. However this isn't really a feature that is top priority so I'll leave that be. (**I don´t understand your point... Vault give only a Grab back, nothing more. No front special, no rage, no knee, no headbutt, only throw or slam moves possibility. Having all moves from the Grab front is not good??**)
- Explosion radius is HUGE and unavoidable. Case in point the bike when Jack jumps off, if your trapped in a corner with no special meter, you're screwed and this is the first level.(**Yes, it is intentional, a surprise spawn. ROLL can avoid any explosion easily if you made it correctly**)
- Bikers juggle you with these same explosions and even worse hit you with one immediately after hitting you with their bikes. (**Yes, it is intentional**)
Explosions aren't just explosions when you can't even land on the ground because so many grenades are being thrown at once, it just doesn't work well with how the juggle system works. Just in my video alone I had to watch for a good 5 seconds as my character got juggles to death by bikers running across the screen, hitting me with unavoidable grenades.(**Yes, it is intentional, motobikers must be feared because they have BIKES and you need to use ROLL, rage, jump attacks or defensive special to easily avoid it**)
I appreciate you taking the time to listen to the concerns. Looking forward to the update.
Ok man, I will do a quick answer in some questions on your post above. Thanks for the suggestions. In the next days, I will make some videos showing how to use all resources of the game.
Mr.Din
Member
it's a bit hard to read your replies in the way you're presenting them but I'll try to reply accordingly.
(**Yes, have weakness, need to explore more**) (**Yes, this is intentional but they need special bar for it**) (**Yes, this is intentional, the heroes can do it too and the RAGE skill was made to be feared**) (**Blocking = NO DAMAGE TAKEN!! It is not good???**) (**Yes, this is intentional, they are BOSSES and exists to bring a lot of problem for the players**)
At best the only weaknesses I'm seeing with bosses is spamming juggles and rage art. to be honest that's even worse than trying to avoid button mashing combos, if there are other weaknesses it doesn't feel worth the time to find when I can just do those things. Yes Rage art is decent mechanic on it's own but again the fact that a boss can drain your special meter by performing their own just makes it useless. Blocking isn't good because it isn't properly implemented, the way that bosses behave are too random to even bother blocking again why do this when I can just run around and not risk taking damage?
(**Yes, this is intentional. Roll is not only a cool move. During roll you are INVINCIBLE and can escape from a lot of attacks, including the feared explosion and bosses rage. I don´t understand how this could not be good**)
just like blocking the rolling is implemented in a way that pretty much make it useless. I mean it's your mod do as you will but this is complexity for no reason.
(**Juggle is only a complement to end combo with more hits, if you don´t like, don´t need to use. However, an aerial recovery at cost of a special bar could be a good idea... Sammy already have aerial special too**)
you missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about the player juggling. I'm referring to countering being juggled by enemies. good to know sammy has an aerial special, in this situation that shouldn't be exclusive to him.
(**I don´t understand your point... Vault give only a Grab back, nothing more. No front special, no rage, no knee, no headbutt, only throw or slam moves possibility. Having all moves from the Grab front is not good??**)
vaulting and back grabbing give you the opportunity to not be vulnerable during your grab for starters, referring to sammy again his vault throw works from both sides. what has effectively happened here is that half of the point of his vault throw is gone which hurts his character considering it's his only way of tossing goons around both directions a big part of his gameplay, cross ups are another benefit of the grapple system.
(**Yes, it is intentional, a surprise spawn. ROLL can avoid any explosion easily if you made it correctly**)
(**Yes, it is intentional, motobikers must be feared because they have BIKES and you need to use ROLL, rage, jump attacks or defensive special to easily avoid it**)
this would be a valid point if bikers actually worked like they did in original games but they don't. They ride around at random spots on the z axis and have no start up to warn you when and where they're coming from. This still doesn't justify the fact that they can juggle you back to back on top of hitting you point blank with grenades.
the video should help others understand the game better.
(**Yes, have weakness, need to explore more**) (**Yes, this is intentional but they need special bar for it**) (**Yes, this is intentional, the heroes can do it too and the RAGE skill was made to be feared**) (**Blocking = NO DAMAGE TAKEN!! It is not good???**) (**Yes, this is intentional, they are BOSSES and exists to bring a lot of problem for the players**)
At best the only weaknesses I'm seeing with bosses is spamming juggles and rage art. to be honest that's even worse than trying to avoid button mashing combos, if there are other weaknesses it doesn't feel worth the time to find when I can just do those things. Yes Rage art is decent mechanic on it's own but again the fact that a boss can drain your special meter by performing their own just makes it useless. Blocking isn't good because it isn't properly implemented, the way that bosses behave are too random to even bother blocking again why do this when I can just run around and not risk taking damage?
(**Yes, this is intentional. Roll is not only a cool move. During roll you are INVINCIBLE and can escape from a lot of attacks, including the feared explosion and bosses rage. I don´t understand how this could not be good**)
just like blocking the rolling is implemented in a way that pretty much make it useless. I mean it's your mod do as you will but this is complexity for no reason.
(**Juggle is only a complement to end combo with more hits, if you don´t like, don´t need to use. However, an aerial recovery at cost of a special bar could be a good idea... Sammy already have aerial special too**)
you missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about the player juggling. I'm referring to countering being juggled by enemies. good to know sammy has an aerial special, in this situation that shouldn't be exclusive to him.
(**I don´t understand your point... Vault give only a Grab back, nothing more. No front special, no rage, no knee, no headbutt, only throw or slam moves possibility. Having all moves from the Grab front is not good??**)
vaulting and back grabbing give you the opportunity to not be vulnerable during your grab for starters, referring to sammy again his vault throw works from both sides. what has effectively happened here is that half of the point of his vault throw is gone which hurts his character considering it's his only way of tossing goons around both directions a big part of his gameplay, cross ups are another benefit of the grapple system.
(**Yes, it is intentional, a surprise spawn. ROLL can avoid any explosion easily if you made it correctly**)
(**Yes, it is intentional, motobikers must be feared because they have BIKES and you need to use ROLL, rage, jump attacks or defensive special to easily avoid it**)
this would be a valid point if bikers actually worked like they did in original games but they don't. They ride around at random spots on the z axis and have no start up to warn you when and where they're coming from. This still doesn't justify the fact that they can juggle you back to back on top of hitting you point blank with grenades.
the video should help others understand the game better.
16-bit Fighter
Active member
I have the same concerns than the other members but your mod is very promising, Kratus!
IMO this mod is a great opportunity to make a SoR HD! I think upscaling sprites with ROTsprite and a few edits isn't a big deal and worth it!
IMO this mod is a great opportunity to make a SoR HD! I think upscaling sprites with ROTsprite and a few edits isn't a big deal and worth it!
Hello!
Here goes one more update with some changes:
- Changed Special bar to Rage bar
- Rage bar does not fill itself, only fills if did hit or take damage (except for Mr. X)
- Special Attacks costs 5% of the Life bar only
- Counter Attacks costs 1/3 of the Rage bar only, no need full Block bar
- Removed excessive "avoid" from some enemies, changed to "neutral" or "chase" type
- Improved random item drop from obstacles, now always drops item
- Removed defensive Special skills from some bosses, like original game
- Added "push back" when blocking
- Added more "invincible time" for heroes when rising
- Improved Rage special effect to fix Android slowdown problem
- Reduced all Webm videos frame rate from 60fps to 30fps to fix Android slowdown problem
Download version 1.2:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19_9LRw40J6nPaWltBhlrviPWMaAXX_aO
I hope you enjoy!
Here goes one more update with some changes:
- Changed Special bar to Rage bar
- Rage bar does not fill itself, only fills if did hit or take damage (except for Mr. X)
- Special Attacks costs 5% of the Life bar only
- Counter Attacks costs 1/3 of the Rage bar only, no need full Block bar
- Removed excessive "avoid" from some enemies, changed to "neutral" or "chase" type
- Improved random item drop from obstacles, now always drops item
- Removed defensive Special skills from some bosses, like original game
- Added "push back" when blocking
- Added more "invincible time" for heroes when rising
- Improved Rage special effect to fix Android slowdown problem
- Reduced all Webm videos frame rate from 60fps to 30fps to fix Android slowdown problem
Download version 1.2:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19_9LRw40J6nPaWltBhlrviPWMaAXX_aO
I hope you enjoy!
O Ilusionista
Captain 100K
Cool. I will try it on Android to see how it works.
The videos was playing perfectly, the slowdown was on the shadow trail. But let me test.
The videos was playing perfectly, the slowdown was on the shadow trail. But let me test.
Psykai
Well-known member
I want to thank you for being the kind of developer who listens to criticism and aims to change things people are unhappy with ^_^
There's definitely some improvements. The game feels better to play, but the bosses are still a little too much. Barbon only has to land one hit and then he can just juggle kick you infinitely, or at the very least drain most of your health.
When I started the bike stage, I quit within a minute. I thought the bikes in SoR2 were enough but these guys are on a whole other level of bullshit and I imagine the entire game will have a similar "annoyingly and unnecessarily difficult" vibe and I'm pretty tired of this trend in game design so my patience is none-existent here, sorry.
EDIT: I pushed on to the Jet boss and yeah... that was the nail in the coffin for this mod. Not playing this again.
In concept, the game has some cool ideas and I'd be very interested in seeing how the baddies play but I haven't got the patience or masochism required to try and finish it, lol.
There's definitely some improvements. The game feels better to play, but the bosses are still a little too much. Barbon only has to land one hit and then he can just juggle kick you infinitely, or at the very least drain most of your health.
When I started the bike stage, I quit within a minute. I thought the bikes in SoR2 were enough but these guys are on a whole other level of bullshit and I imagine the entire game will have a similar "annoyingly and unnecessarily difficult" vibe and I'm pretty tired of this trend in game design so my patience is none-existent here, sorry.
EDIT: I pushed on to the Jet boss and yeah... that was the nail in the coffin for this mod. Not playing this again.
In concept, the game has some cool ideas and I'd be very interested in seeing how the baddies play but I haven't got the patience or masochism required to try and finish it, lol.
Psykai
Well-known member
DintheAbary said:
Yeah I was writing that as I was playing and when I first started I was like "oh this feels pretty good" and then the bullshit started and rage mode kicked in XD
It's a step in the right direction but a long ways from personally being worth my time, however I appreciate most people have more patience and tolerance for 'challenging' games lol.
Mr.Din
Member
had to stop at stage 5 game dragged a bit by this time but only due to enemies taking too long to kill and sub bosses still having boss things. This is a vast improvement, enemies don't hang around off screen, bosses less annoying but still challenging and mechanics feel more refined. going to have to play some more.
pudu
Well-known member
KratusGH said:
Thank you for this update
However, there are some suggestions I hope you can see thanks:
Hope that the mp system can be changed, you can use hp instead, for example: mp can not be used hp instead. There is also a block counterattack I hope or stop the energy. The current use of the former s is reduced too much. I hope to strengthen it.
Miru
Well-known member
Alright:
- Bikers are still Fake Difficulty compared to their original counterparts. Here's some solutions:
** Make them work like the original game.
** Have not all of them toss grenades
** Introduce the SOR2X-style biker as a miniboss before introducing them as enemies.
** Defeated bikers could drop grenades for players to use.
- Fighting two Jets on the second level is a little weird. Maybe have no regular enemies there? Or a stage hazard you can trick them into taking damage from?
- You should either include different musical tracks for every section of a level or include a script to keep the music playing without interruptions or repeating.
- The mini-boss versions of the bosses shouldn't be able to use their Rage attack right off the bat, if at all.
- Maybe have the Special attacks first cost from the block bar, before it runs out and you use the life bar? Too often I've been unable to use a needed Special to get out of a jam.
- Rage moves aren't performable with a weapon for whatever reason.
- Elemental attacks should register as elemental upon every hit, not just the last.
- There’s still no vaulting. To improve the vault, have more options when vaulting, like Izuna dropping the foe right away to fling them into enemies or onto the ground, or a combo to the backside.
- Rage could increase at a much faster rate when you are juggled. Because being attacked with little chance of recovery should really enrage someone, right?
- Maybe have the ability to "bust" a surrendering Electra?
- Overall, this game is a lot fairer and funner than before.
- Bikers are still Fake Difficulty compared to their original counterparts. Here's some solutions:
** Make them work like the original game.
** Have not all of them toss grenades
** Introduce the SOR2X-style biker as a miniboss before introducing them as enemies.
** Defeated bikers could drop grenades for players to use.
- Fighting two Jets on the second level is a little weird. Maybe have no regular enemies there? Or a stage hazard you can trick them into taking damage from?
- You should either include different musical tracks for every section of a level or include a script to keep the music playing without interruptions or repeating.
- The mini-boss versions of the bosses shouldn't be able to use their Rage attack right off the bat, if at all.
- Maybe have the Special attacks first cost from the block bar, before it runs out and you use the life bar? Too often I've been unable to use a needed Special to get out of a jam.
- Rage moves aren't performable with a weapon for whatever reason.
- Elemental attacks should register as elemental upon every hit, not just the last.
- There’s still no vaulting. To improve the vault, have more options when vaulting, like Izuna dropping the foe right away to fling them into enemies or onto the ground, or a combo to the backside.
- Rage could increase at a much faster rate when you are juggled. Because being attacked with little chance of recovery should really enrage someone, right?
- Maybe have the ability to "bust" a surrendering Electra?
- Overall, this game is a lot fairer and funner than before.
O Ilusionista
Captain 100K
Saddly, seams that people are loving using your unfinished work...