In Progress Streets of Rage 2X By Kratus 2.3.1
- Thread starter Adam hunter
- Start date
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- Tags
- streets of rage
The project is currently under development.
Nick Puzirkov
New member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdKzMO4Qr48&ab_channel=StreetsofrageRemake5.1StreetsofrageXXX
LordKarasuman
New member
As grotesque as the SoR Zombies guy's art gets, he does sometimes do spritework that's not grotesque. I've never managed a full playthrough of SoRZ but someone I know pointed out this neat Crime Fighters 1 reference, for instance.
I'm not sure how far out the new version of SoR2X is (well I guess it's technically SoRX now), but for now, I've got a pair of videos. One is another grueling experience both to play and watch, wherein I attempt to use the generic Ninja enemy. Another is a more casual video where I try to play through the special stages Kratus implemented into 2X. I feel like I should have held back on Tracker so as to show off his moveset, but considering how long 2.2 has been out everybody probably knows how his fight is supposed to play out. Really, Shiva is obnoxious in every game he's in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xxpJBuVgZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6J8nIUtV_s
This is how I'd currently rank everyone currently playable:
Couple things I've noticed in playtesting.
I'm not sure how far out the new version of SoR2X is (well I guess it's technically SoRX now), but for now, I've got a pair of videos. One is another grueling experience both to play and watch, wherein I attempt to use the generic Ninja enemy. Another is a more casual video where I try to play through the special stages Kratus implemented into 2X. I feel like I should have held back on Tracker so as to show off his moveset, but considering how long 2.2 has been out everybody probably knows how his fight is supposed to play out. Really, Shiva is obnoxious in every game he's in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xxpJBuVgZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6J8nIUtV_s
This is how I'd currently rank everyone currently playable:
Couple things I've noticed in playtesting.
- Zan's so good. I really need to do a video of him doing Mania because he's so damned easy to use.
- Is it normal for the enemies to leave you alone when you're playing either version of Jet until you start attacking?
- I want to rank Vice higher because he has a neat 40 damage combo off of his grab combo but you can't actually use it on bosses even on Normal so I'm knocking him down to F. If the grab combo were 2 hits instead of 3 he'd be playable in Normal easily.
- When's my boy Roo gonna get a Rage Attack? Give him something to do with the meter he gains super fast and he will be C minimum easily.
- Mona/Lisa losing damage on their jump kicks is one thing, but losing damage on their throws in the transition from 2.2 to 2.3 was extra painful.
LordKarasuman,
I'm surprised you rate the regular PCs so low. They may not have the obnoxious keep-away tactics available to the bosses, but their sheer damage output and combo possibilities makes up for it IMO. Axel and Adam are debatable, but I'd have Blaze and Max at B++ or B+ minimum - higher in the hands of an absolute expert. Shiva himself is just a boss using PC play mechanics. Other than him or super obnoxious guys like Jet, the regular PCs just have a lot more potential to exploit I think.
The Ninja grunts also deserve a slight bump IMO. They do reasonable single strike damage and can play an amazing hit and run. Not so great in crowds, but if you have patience they can wear down bosses untouched. Slide in and throw all day FTW.
DC
I'm surprised you rate the regular PCs so low. They may not have the obnoxious keep-away tactics available to the bosses, but their sheer damage output and combo possibilities makes up for it IMO. Axel and Adam are debatable, but I'd have Blaze and Max at B++ or B+ minimum - higher in the hands of an absolute expert. Shiva himself is just a boss using PC play mechanics. Other than him or super obnoxious guys like Jet, the regular PCs just have a lot more potential to exploit I think.
The Ninja grunts also deserve a slight bump IMO. They do reasonable single strike damage and can play an amazing hit and run. Not so great in crowds, but if you have patience they can wear down bosses untouched. Slide in and throw all day FTW.
DC
LordKarasuman
I fixed it for the next version.
Once you press the "jump", the player will perform the last "grab attack" move in the grab combo. So, it's possible to use 3, 2 or 1 hit in the grab combo if you want.
The damage output formula is: "base damage x power attribute". In the v2.2, the damage for all throws is 12 and for the slams is 18, now in the latest version all damages are 12.
I made this change because the slam move already has an native advantage over the throw, because the damage is dealt at the moment the opponent touches the ground and it can't be avoided. On the other hand, the throw damage can be totally avoided by using the safe land feature.
In addition, strong characters will have a huge advantage when the formula is applied over a slam damage of 18. Let's take the Max's slam move as an example:
In the v2.2 we have:
power = 4
slam damage = 18
4 x 18 = 72
In the v2.3 we have:
power = 4
slam damage = 12
4 x 12 = 48
So, although Monalisa has a slam damage reduced a little, she will get a lot less damage from enemies and bosses, specially the strongest ones like Abadede.
The same goes for the SOR3 Shiva, I think he can be ranked to S. Although he has less moves and features compared to Axel, your speed, combo possibilities, his unique "rising attack" move, jump height and energy refill rate make him an unstoppable fighter.
However, I know that mania difficulty doesn't allow you to have a great performance all the time, sometimes you need to sacrifice some complex combos for survival. In this case, if we consider only a basic fight, stronger characters commonly have a better performance, same as your ranking is showing.
Overall, for the other characters your rank is good, with a little exception for the Ninja (another agree with Damon Caskey). If we discounsider rage moves, Kusanagi can be better even than some bosses.
I thank you so much by creating these tiers because it always helps me to improve the game. As a suggestion, maybe an idea to improve your tier calculation is by considering the total "played" time VS the lives lost. For example, Sammy has a very high speed and it's easy for him to escape from most enemies, avoiding damage. However, his very low damage makes the playthrough a lot longer than other characters, which can decrease your tier.
You can activate the "played time" in the extra menu/features.
Sorry, it's my fault. I forgot adding the "rangeb" for all characters and due to the "seta" function used on Jet characters, sometimes your opponents will not attack.
I fixed it for the next version.
You can manage it manually by using the "Jump" button instead of the "Attack" button while grabbing an opponent.
Once you press the "jump", the player will perform the last "grab attack" move in the grab combo. So, it's possible to use 3, 2 or 1 hit in the grab combo if you want.
I didn't added a rage move for Roo because it's a feature exclusive for heroes and bosses only. Regular enemies can use your meter (energy stars) to perform special moves without cast health by using the "eneregy+life" or "energy only" special cost option in the extra menu. You can also use the "sor3 ok bar" for it but you will need to wait until this bar is full and it's not possible to use 3 times consecutively without losing life.
Only the slam damage was reduced, the throw damage remains the same. In fact, all slam damages were decreased to reduce the difference between all characters and make the game more balanced in this aspect.
The damage output formula is: "base damage x power attribute". In the v2.2, the damage for all throws is 12 and for the slams is 18, now in the latest version all damages are 12.
I made this change because the slam move already has an native advantage over the throw, because the damage is dealt at the moment the opponent touches the ground and it can't be avoided. On the other hand, the throw damage can be totally avoided by using the safe land feature.
In addition, strong characters will have a huge advantage when the formula is applied over a slam damage of 18. Let's take the Max's slam move as an example:
In the v2.2 we have:
power = 4
slam damage = 18
4 x 18 = 72
In the v2.3 we have:
power = 4
slam damage = 12
4 x 12 = 48
So, although Monalisa has a slam damage reduced a little, she will get a lot less damage from enemies and bosses, specially the strongest ones like Abadede.
I agree with what Damon Caskeys said. For example, I played incountable times with Axel due to my tests and if you use everything he has, he can be moved to the tier A easily.
The same goes for the SOR3 Shiva, I think he can be ranked to S. Although he has less moves and features compared to Axel, your speed, combo possibilities, his unique "rising attack" move, jump height and energy refill rate make him an unstoppable fighter.
However, I know that mania difficulty doesn't allow you to have a great performance all the time, sometimes you need to sacrifice some complex combos for survival. In this case, if we consider only a basic fight, stronger characters commonly have a better performance, same as your ranking is showing.
Overall, for the other characters your rank is good, with a little exception for the Ninja (another agree with Damon Caskey). If we discounsider rage moves, Kusanagi can be better even than some bosses.
I thank you so much by creating these tiers because it always helps me to improve the game. As a suggestion, maybe an idea to improve your tier calculation is by considering the total "played" time VS the lives lost. For example, Sammy has a very high speed and it's easy for him to escape from most enemies, avoiding damage. However, his very low damage makes the playthrough a lot longer than other characters, which can decrease your tier.
You can activate the "played time" in the extra menu/features.
LordKarasuman
New member
Damon Caskey said:
I want to like Kusanagi because he technically can zone like a boss with his shuriken, he technically has an evasion game due to Ninpo Kage Bunshin, and he technically has a grapple game with his throw, which is something a lot of characters can't say.
The issue is that Mania enemies know to stick to you like glue and jab you out of most of your tricks, and while you can occasionally walk in diagonally on an opponent and throw them, 2.3's increasingly erratic Mania enemies will make it difficult to capitalize on this when you're fighting crowds. Technically you might be able to Kage Bunshin into an opponent but more often than not even a Galsia will aggressively punch you before you can get a throw off. The more stable way of dealing with crowds is either Charge Attack or neutral jump attack (triple shuriken)... Neither of which work at all the minute you run into any group that has Slum or Tiger in it, and they're not even the only major blockers that can show up in a group. For instance, if Barbon moved just a little bit faster in any encounter he'd be a ruinous battle, but thankfully he doesn't. Also, Kusanagi's an enemy character which means he has the same slow recovery as other enemies/sub-bosses, so if you get into the pickle of getting hit by two different Galsia's on both sides you're probably going to end up doing neutral special twice because the little trip kick he does only hits one way. Then you get hit after doing that, and lose a fat section of your health bar.
I just can't imagine him doing a traditional route on Mania properly, but I'd like to be proven wrong. He's clearly got a lot going on and AI Kusanagis clearly demonstrate that he can be a nightmare to fight, but in practice he's so cumbersome for actual human players to use.
Kratus said:
I'd like to add that despite trivializing a lot of the game, Jet still has some pretty tricky matchups even with the enemies not attacking you at all until you go in on them. For instance, most of the attacks Barbon will use on you are fairly good anti-air, so if you do anything but use neutral special on him, he can kill you extremely fast. Also, missing throws on any version of Shiva means you will probably go from flying in the sky to faceplanting into the pavement.
I swear I tried pressing jump to end Vice's combo early and it wasn't working before. Now it is and I just feel like an idiot. I'm bumping him back up to E because being able to dish out 32 damage on Normal off a grapple makes him pretty playable on that difficulty.
As far as Roo goes, I feel like he needs something. He used to be a playable character (and once upon a time he was my Streets of Rage main!) in the original games and it's rough because he's either not doing enough damage or multihits for damage which is just asking for him to get interrupted.
That slam damage formula is interesting. Just a shame that it affected the sisters like this.
I think you and Damon have both mentioned that the main cast has an extremely high upper ceiling in terms of potential, but it's hard to take advantage of it in Mania. They have every tool in the game by virtue of being regular player characters, but there's just so many people attacking you, or there's some gimmick you're having to deal with (R-Bear and his multitude of i-frames + all the goons, enemy super armor, enemy blocking, etc. etc.) that it's extremely hard to actually achieve that potential so you have to resort to safe attacks and tactics. Compare this to a lot of the bosses who also have safe tactics on top of having high damage baked into their basic moves. Kratus touched on this, but it really does make the main cast finesse characters to the point that their viable tactics not only have a high ceiling, but also a low floor.
That said, tier lists are based on characters being played at their best; I'll probably move characters up based on such feedback.
Low damage really is the only thing holding Sammy back because he's otherwise super safe. You can diagonally dash attack into enemies on different parts of the Y-plane and build meter into Corkscrew Kick with impunity, but that takes foreeeeeever.
As for playtime, I do try to factor that in. The fact that Jack, SoR2 Electra, and Kusanagi take me like 2+ hours to beat the game (on the easiest route!) is probably 75% of the reason they're down there, tbh. I'll try to turn playtime on going forward for any runs I record, but on this subject I want to say I really appreciate that you put the times on the highscore board automatically. Really puts things into perspective.
LordKarasuman
New member
Got another set of videos. As it turns out, P-1 got a massive buff with the 2.3 juggle system and Roo's okay just as long as you a) never set foot into SoR3 route other than Stage 8 and b) come to the realization that sometimes you gotta throw your health out for specials before the enemy beats that health out of you anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTOy9w71nsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QER6YhrSpMQ
Current Mania Tier List:
Things of note:
EDIT: Also, I ran into a strange bug; if P-1 is on the scoreboard the game will crash when you try to load the scoreboard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTOy9w71nsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QER6YhrSpMQ
Current Mania Tier List:
Things of note:
- After some testing I think I agree with Kratus and Damon on moving some characters up, so they've been adjusted accordingly.
- The only exception to this is Blaze, where I think I'd need to see videos of what exactly people are doing on Mania to get good results out of her.
- I think even after separating people out on C, some people might actually be pretty bad in 2.3. For instance, I think I need to actually move Ash down lower because the last time I used him was in 2.2 where his jump attacks did a lot more damage and could therefore be relied on as his bread-and-butter attack. The increase in enemy aggression and the halving of jump attack damage might have damaged him more badly than I thought.
- Particle's also kind of having it rough in the newest versions so I'll probably look at him too.
EDIT: Also, I ran into a strange bug; if P-1 is on the scoreboard the game will crash when you try to load the scoreboard.
thank you so much!
Got another set of videos. As it turns out, P-1 got a massive buff with the 2.3 juggle system and Roo's okay just as long as you a) never set foot into SoR3 route other than Stage 8 and b) come to the realization that sometimes you gotta throw your health out for specials before the enemy beats that health out of you anyway.
Current Mania Tier List:
Things of note:
- After some testing I think I agree with Kratus and Damon on moving some characters up, so they've been adjusted accordingly.
- The only exception to this is Blaze, where I think I'd need to see videos of what exactly people are doing on Mania to get good results out of her.
- I think even after separating people out on C, some people might actually be pretty bad in 2.3. For instance, I think I need to actually move Ash down lower because the last time I used him was in 2.2 where his jump attacks did a lot more damage and could therefore be relied on as his bread-and-butter attack. The increase in enemy aggression and the halving of jump attack damage might have damaged him more badly than I thought.
- Particle's also kind of having it rough in the newest versions so I'll probably look at him too.
EDIT: Also, I ran into a strange bug; if P-1 is on the scoreboard the game will crash when you try to load the scoreboard.
@LordKarasuman
Great playthroughs as always
About Roo, I can add a "super" for him, it will not cross the "bosses" rules and you can use the meter to perform a better attack.
I will take a look at the P-1 bug at the scoreboard, thanks for the report.
Here's my playthrough of the SOR3 Route bro:
I noticed you left out an 1up at the start of stage 3 hidden behind the gate, where the 4 blocks are did you do that on purpose or just forgot lol!!
Yeah I lost a credit at the part where you have to fight Jet where he's throwing the bombs on the rooftop as you loose lives when your CPU partner dies, as the partner wasn't able to dodge the bombs he was dropping!!
I'm managed to get the good ending though, so that was nice though when entering the name initials at the end I pushed a button and skipped the ending entirely ROFL!!
Thanks again for the game man, looking forward to SORX
I noticed you left out an 1up at the start of stage 3 hidden behind the gate, where the 4 blocks are did you do that on purpose or just forgot lol!!
Yeah I lost a credit at the part where you have to fight Jet where he's throwing the bombs on the rooftop as you loose lives when your CPU partner dies, as the partner wasn't able to dodge the bombs he was dropping!!
I'm managed to get the good ending though, so that was nice though when entering the name initials at the end I pushed a button and skipped the ending entirely ROFL!!
Thanks again for the game man, looking forward to SORX
Hey bro, great playthrough! Sorry about the 1up, I totally forgot it. Thanks for rememberingHere's my playthrough of the SOR3 Route bro:
I noticed you left out an 1up at the start of stage 3 hidden behind the gate, where the 4 blocks are did you do that on purpose or just forgot lol!!
Yeah I lost a credit at the part where you have to fight Jet where he's throwing the bombs on the rooftop as you loose lives when your CPU partner dies, as the partner wasn't able to dodge the bombs he was dropping!!
I'm managed to get the good ending though, so that was nice though when entering the name initials at the end I pushed a button and skipped the ending entirely ROFL!!
Thanks again for the game man, looking forward to SORX
Last edited:
Added latest version to resources and associated with this discussion thread. Made @Kratus resource owner.
@Kratus, when you are ready to release the first version of Streets of Rage X, I'll show you how to update the download page. You can re-associate with the new SORX thread and it has a tool specifically for posting and tracking updated versions.
DC
@Kratus, when you are ready to release the first version of Streets of Rage X, I'll show you how to update the download page. You can re-associate with the new SORX thread and it has a tool specifically for posting and tracking updated versions.
DC
Thanks buddy! The new "resources" feature is great.
Hey bro,
Top Hat Gaming Man just covered this game, you can view the video here:
Congrats man!! Awesome work as usual!!
Top Hat Gaming Man just covered this game, you can view the video here:
Congrats man!! Awesome work as usual!!
Wow, the video is awesome! Thanks bro
